Power of Connection: Marketing with Conferences with guest, Kevin Brown Sr. VP at All Points

[00:00:00] My dad works in B2B Marketing, but I never really knew what that meant. Then one day my dad came by my school for career day and told everyone in my class he was a big row-ass man.

[00:00:11] Then he just kept saying things like, the bigger the row-ass the better. Over and over. My friends still laugh at me to this day. I think it means calculating a return on ad spend?

[00:00:23] One thing's for sure. I'll be known as the row-ass man's kid for the rest of my days. Why can't you just be a fireman or a lawyer? Why? You ruined my life, dad.

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[00:01:34] You heard them! Go subscribe! Welcome to the Space Marketing Podcast, where we look at marketing principles, strategies, and tactics through the lens of space. Hi, I am your host Izzy House, and I am so excited to share this journey with you as we explore the different space industries.

[00:01:55] On this episode, we will look at how to use conferences as a powerful marketing tool with guests Kevin Brown, Senior Vice President of Business Development for All Points. So, lift off in three, two, one! Welcome to the Space Marketing Podcast. Information relating to our discussion today

[00:02:28] and links to the video version can be found in the episode show notes on spacemarketingpodcast.com. Please like and subscribe to the podcast. It will help more people reach beyond the atmosphere. Information in this episode is for entertainment and

[00:02:48] information only. Please consult a professional for your specific situation. Welcome to the new year! This is the first Space Marketing Podcast of 2024. There has been a little break between episodes. I have been working with GSA Spaceport Alliance to get the

[00:03:06] GSA Spaceport Summit up and rolling, and it will be happening in two weeks. Or when you hear this podcast, it will be next week, January 29th. It is a part of Commercial Space Week, and

[00:03:19] Spacecom is the pinnacle of that particular space week, as well as Space Mobility with the Department of Defense with U.S. Space Force. So it is a jam-packed week that is going to

[00:03:30] be something you do not want to miss. So in my book, Space Marketing, Competing in the New Commercial Space Industry, I have an entire section dedicated to events. Events such as conferences, expos, summits, conventions, and congresses can provide a wealth of opportunity to be heard,

[00:03:51] seen, and interact with individuals within a particular industry. Hosting, sponsoring, vending, and speaking, which is one of the toughest things to do at these events, can help build brand awareness and establish you, your company, or your brand as the industry

[00:04:09] expert, putting your brand in front of the audience that cares deeply enough about the event to show up. Our guest today is establishing his company as an industry leader using conferences, like Spacecom as a platform. Our next guest is the speaker for the session, Optimizing

[00:04:33] Spaceport Infrastructure, which if you all know, that's my second book, is on spaceports. I love spaceports and I'm going to make sure that I am at this one. He has some really great news he's

[00:04:45] going to be talking about. His company is also a sponsor of Spacecom, and his company has set up a booth at Spacecom. So our guest is Senior Vice President of Business Development at all points,

[00:04:58] his name is Kevin Brown. So welcome to the podcast, Kevin Brown. Yeah, well thank you. Is he happy to be here? Not happy to have you and you are paths crossed in all kinds of different ways.

[00:05:10] So I'd like to begin with a backstory of how we ended up as space professionals. So my first question to you today is how did you personally become interested in space? That's a good question. It actually has, it was way in the past. So probably 35, 40 years ago,

[00:05:36] I was really just getting out of college and my first job. I grew up in the Gulf Coast, the Louisiana. And in my 20s, I realized the field that I was in, which at the time was

[00:05:49] computer science. I was doing software development in the oil and gas industry, realized that I could take that career really anywhere in the world. It wasn't tied to any particular place. You know, software development is something needed everywhere. So I kind of set

[00:06:04] back and said where would I like to live? And I just thought well you know Florida is a great vacation spot, so it would be kind of cool to live there. So I started interviewing and looking at

[00:06:13] jobs and ended up with a job at McDonald Douglas down at Kennedy Space Center in the 80s actually right after the Challenger accident. And haven't looked back since. It's a great industry. So

[00:06:27] and you have been in quite a few different things. In fact, you were, you started a business that was Kennedy Space Center or a small contractor, subcontractor of the year and named one of Florida's top 100 fastest growing companies. So this all points company is not your

[00:06:45] first foray into entrepreneurship. You've done your research. Yeah so I started a couple of partners and I spun off a business from McDonald Douglas in the 90s. The McDonald Douglas had developed a ground launch control software technology that was even used for some of the

[00:07:09] experimental rockets. Some of your listeners may recognize the DCX program as a really cutting edge single stage to orbit initiative that at the time the predecessor to the missile defense agency was sponsoring. We had spun off the technology that was essentially

[00:07:28] allowed rockets to be launched in the same way that airplanes are flown with a pilot and a co-pilot. We spun that off into a company called command and control technologies in the 90s. That company

[00:07:40] is still active and doing very well. It's just based just outside Kennedy Space Center. And it was a real highlight of my career. I really enjoyed the entrepreneurial aspect of it and that is what ended up drawing me to all points. There is a new line of business

[00:07:59] that we're standing up at all points called Space Probe that is very entrepreneurial. It's entirely it's essentially a new business within all points and really excited about it. In my particular past I was part of an incubator when I first started my business back

[00:08:16] many, many years ago and it was a technology incubator. So tell us a little bit about this new initiative because to me it sounds like an incubator and I think it would be really great.

[00:08:29] So go ahead and tell us about this new Space Prep initiative that all points is getting ready to do. Sure. So yeah the incubator is a good term. All points, the corporation is essentially acting as its own incubator and spinning out this company. And Space

[00:08:48] Prep is not the first one just by the way. So Phil Moncretus who's the majority owner and CEO is interested in creating new businesses, making new ventures and a variety of industries. Space Prep is one that I'm associated with and it is developing infrastructure at Spaceports.

[00:09:08] The best way to think about it is analogies to airports. If you think back years ago when air travel was expensive and there really wasn't a huge volume, the airport infrastructure was considerably smaller than it is today. But as deregulation lowered the prices of air travel

[00:09:29] the demand for air travel just exploded and the airport infrastructure was just inadequate to handle the demand. So Boeing was turning out more airplanes and United and Continental and American were selling lots of tickets but the airports were struggling to keep up with that.

[00:09:46] So the same thing is happening in the space industry now. For years the Spaceports particularly in California and Florida have been adequate to handle the launch traffic. But with the investment and the tremendous increase in launches and emissions the infrastructure

[00:10:06] is just inadequate to handle the anticipated launch cadence. So rather than all points investing in new satellites or new rockets we are looking at what the Florida workforce really specializes in which is that ground infrastructure. So we're investing in payload processing facilities and warehouses

[00:10:26] and storage and control centers and all the the spaceport ground infrastructure is necessary these new missions and will be leasing and renting and making these various facilities and services available to the satellite spacecraft providers and the launch vehicle providers.

[00:10:41] That's one of the things in my book space marketing spaceports is I talk about is that the power of a spaceport is not necessarily the launch the launch is critical you know to be

[00:10:52] able to do our country does not have near enough of spaceports that can actually do launch right now so that that is critical but let's let's take that aside it can become an economic hub

[00:11:03] for the community and that's one of the things that a lot of people miss it's like you look at Houston and you look Houston can't do vertical launch and yet they're becoming a hub with all these facilities surrounding their spaceport and that inspires the next generation of workforce

[00:11:21] that's around it it brings money into the into the community itself and it builds up economy that an area that may not have a viable economy will be able to utilize and benefit from so that's

[00:11:38] kind of why I'm passionate about spaceports so I love what you're doing here and especially you know being able to make it to where other businesses can come in and take care of

[00:11:50] what they need to do as well as be a part of that space launch industry that's right and it is it's truly global our phase one is focused on Florida which is where the greatest need is right

[00:12:01] now phase two is California particularly around Bandenberg where the demand is going to be even greater than Florida eventually particularly from the the military side and then phase three is

[00:12:14] beyond those two bases other other bases in in the U.S. as well as worldwide we think that the spaceport industry is going to continue to grow and while there are a lot of companies that are interested in building spacecraft and lunar landers and science experiments and

[00:12:31] satellite constellations there's not a lot involved in the ground infrastructure so we see that as a real global business opportunity long term I'm excited about what you're doing and now we understand why you call it all points because you're going to all

[00:12:44] points of the industry that's right right it's it's it's uh the company actually has a history in logistics and you really think hard about this the ground infrastructure is really nothing more

[00:12:55] than a very complex logistics problem yes very much so and it always has been I mean they you have had to track whatever it is up there even if it's only Sputnik

[00:13:06] you have to track it so and you have to send messages to it and ground control is is critical and plus you know there's a lot of benefits that come from the space I mean every day if you watch

[00:13:18] tv if you're watching or listening to this podcast you're you're listening on satellite and so that all needs to be launched up there it needs to be handled while it's up there

[00:13:28] and it can provide a lot of benefits in the consumer market as well so let's uh switch over to the conferences real quick and I want to start off with what is the hardest part about marketing

[00:13:41] I think in many people think is speaking is getting up on that stage and telling your story and uh Jerry Seinfeld talks about how the number one fear is public speaking death is number two

[00:13:56] so that means that if that most people would rather be in the casket than giving the eulogy so and it is something I've had to work on as well because I'm an introvert pretending to be an extrovert

[00:14:11] and I went to Toastmasters for many many many years to be able to learn how to public speak and it's it's an ongoing craft it's not something you ever say oh I'm I'm I'm good with that and

[00:14:23] let me go on it's always something you need to develop so it is it is one of the most powerful things that you can do to market your company is because you get to tell your story and uh you're

[00:14:35] getting ready to go on stage at spacecom and so do you want to tell us a little bit about your session that you're going to be speaking on well sure I'm right there with you Izzy in terms of

[00:14:45] an introvert pretending to be an extrovert I think I crossed that bridge about 20 years ago and just said you just have to do it you just have to do it yeah yeah my my wife and the folks who

[00:14:54] know me real well would uh would back me up on that um but uh you know uh just going back to the public speaking note um we uh we homeschool our kids and one of the reasons we do it is because

[00:15:06] because the skill involved in public speaking is something that you develop over time and we have always integrated that type of skill development into our curriculum and our kids are very good

[00:15:21] public speakers and they don't have that fear it is something that does not just it comes naturally to some people but I think that's more the exception than the rule as far as the panel goes yeah I think you mentioned the title it's an optimizing spaceport infrastructure

[00:15:34] uh the panel is a combination of government and private speak private company speakers who will be discussing the challenges of building and operating and offering multi-user spaceport infrastructure everything from launch pads or complex high-end infrastructure like

[00:15:55] launch pads all the way down to roads and power utilities that are out that are shared and then from the user perspective what are the challenges in obtaining and utilizing shared infrastructure as it's allocated to their particular operation and so this the the panel will then

[00:16:15] go back and forth between the users uh and their providers discussing challenges the future of infrastructure development and operations and how the spaceports might manage that particular enterprise better oh that sounds awesome I I've been doing a lot of webinars with

[00:16:35] space for Kentucky and we've been talking about what goes into building a spaceport because I even though Kentucky is in the middle of the country and is not on the coast

[00:16:46] we may not be able to launch rockets but we can sure build them and uh and so that's kind of my thing for there and what is the value that you see that speaking on stage at these conferences

[00:17:00] gives the all points brand you know maybe broad your question up a little bit participating in events and conferences like this does bring a lot of marketing value to a company I've always thought

[00:17:12] of different modes of participation and something of a hierarchy the most value if you stand back and think about going to a conference how can I get the most value out of what can I do

[00:17:25] because the most value out of an event like this I've always felt that speaking being a speaker was the number one mode of participation because it gives you an opportunity to show thought leadership in your industry if you've been selected amongst your peers to be the

[00:17:43] speaker that alone gives you some credibility and then when you stand up and I start I start speaking about your background and your vision you're able to share that particular share your particular view and insight on the industry and for those in the audience who

[00:18:00] align with what you're discussing are going to see you as a thought leader and that will lead to follow-on business and if nothing else curiosity about what you discussed and conversations that could then lead to business deals hold on to your boosters we

[00:18:16] will be right back with guest Kevin Brown from all points after a brief message from our sponsors please like and subscribe to the space marketing podcast so you don't miss a thing

[00:18:43] my dad works in b2b marketing but I never really knew what that meant then one day my dad came by my school for career day and told everyone in my class he was a big row ass man then he just

[00:18:55] kept saying things like the bigger the row as the better over and over my friends still laugh at me to this day I think it means calculating a return on ad spend one thing is for sure I'll

[00:19:08] be known as the row as man's kid for the rest of my days why can't you just be a fireman or a lawyer why you ruined my life dad not everyone gets b2b but linkedin has the people who do

[00:19:22] and with ads on linkedin you'll be able to reach people based on job title industry likelihood to buy and more start converting your b2b audience into high quality leads today we'll even give you

[00:19:32] a hundred dollar credit on your next ad campaign go to linkedin.com slash mpn to claim your credit that's linkedin.com slash mpn terms and conditions apply linkedin the place to be to be

[00:19:44] beyond speaking I mean there's other things you can do as well so you know the next probably the next most valuable thing is having some type of exhibit and so and then there's other modes

[00:19:53] as well we are planning on looking at your exhibit because that's number you know that's what we have next is number two is vending you being there at the conference now in this world of AI

[00:20:05] there's a lot of things that aren't real that we're seeing and we can make people talk that are you know but at a conference you're meeting real flesh and blood people and it's really hard to

[00:20:19] fake that conferences in my opinion are going to be even more critical going forward with AI and all the things that and all the technology that we have with that because you're going to be meeting

[00:20:29] people one-to-one and you will know that they are real and it gives you a chance to ask questions and maybe spin off other questions you didn't know you had and when you're sitting there talking

[00:20:40] at a booth so let's we're going to break away we're going to go to your booth when at space com and we're going to actually talk about the different components of it and have like a little

[00:20:51] mini so look for that as a bonus material on the web page for this particular podcast and then we'll go on from there so the third thing which you are also doing is sponsoring

[00:21:05] so you're a sponsor for space com as well so you want to talk about maybe the value of a sponsorship and how you choose which event to actually sponsor because there's only a limited

[00:21:17] amount of funds I don't care what come if you're Apple there's a limited amount of funds that you're going to spend on things like this so how did you choose which conference and why excellent question these conferences are opportunities to be in customer rich environments

[00:21:35] that's really the main reason for participating it's you have a chance to get face-to-face with a entire audience of potential customers as well as vendors because there's there are people there they're trying to sell to you as well having meetings and face-to-face conversations is really

[00:21:51] the most valuable thing you can do there and speaking having a trade show booths having a meeting room all lead to those kinds of conversations now so why sponsor the sponsorship certainly gets your brand out there gets you the top of the website and you get visibility

[00:22:08] but that's in my opinion is not really the the best value the best values at least at the larger conferences the sponsorships tend to get other benefits that are immediately apparent particularly the higher-end sponsorships you'll get better placement for your exhibit booth for example

[00:22:28] you'll have access to some events and panels that may be you know invitation only high-end sponsorships typically involve even customized events the event organizer will set up a press conference or do a VIP reception where you can really have a lot of control over who's participating

[00:22:47] and you have a lot of control over your messaging all those types of benefits are really unlocked through the sponsorship that's why we do that and we've you're just talking about space comms

[00:22:59] we're a major sponsor sponsor space comm because it is one of the leading trades one of the leading space industry trade shows it's in florida so it's closed for us and there is a real focus on

[00:23:12] both commercial and dod through the partnership with space mobility and the global spaceport alliance all coming together in space week so it's a again customer-rich environment it's a great place to be for you exposing our brand and having these uh these kinds of panels

[00:23:29] and one of the things about the audience and the people that are coming to these conferences is that they value what they're going to find you know it's not like you're making a cold call

[00:23:39] and you're irritating somebody these people are paying their money to come to this event so they're open to what it is that you're doing they're curious they want to know they want to have these conversations so it's a it's a completely different dynamic

[00:23:55] than what other marketing may give you i these people want to know you period that's right i mean they're the you're right you're paying to attend and so everyone is coming with the same desires

[00:24:07] that i just described right i'm looking to network and talk to so is everybody else right that you wouldn't be participating in these events if you weren't doing that so everybody is open it's easy to have conversations uh with the right folks it's just a matter of

[00:24:22] getting deals started and then being good with the follow-up to close them later yes in conferences or about deals as well so that's where deals deals are made so um

[00:24:36] well all righty so uh to wrap up the conference part it is on it starts on january 29th with gsa spaceport summit and the next day is space mobility with us space force and then it's space

[00:24:51] calm and where all the awesome sessions that we're going to have on the vendor part starts on the 30th and then the first since uh the 31st and the first are space calm and all the the awesome

[00:25:04] sessions that we're going to do i'm a speaker on the workforce development panel i'm a moderator and so i'm looking very forward to that it's also the the 50th space congress as well

[00:25:15] ah yes yes yes yes which is a big deal we've been doing that event for 50 years it started in in coco beach way back back when i was especially big before i came here i remember going to the

[00:25:27] gosh what must have been the 10th space congress wow okay yeah yeah it was uh just multiple hotels on coco beach would host it you'd go from one to the next but to the exhibits and the

[00:25:38] panels and whatnot doing it for a long time i'm going to jump back to one more thing about the public speaking that uh yeah i do why i was a judge at a debate with some nine-year-olds that were

[00:25:51] homeschools and um i was amazed how eloquent that they were as speakers and they were so far above what most adults even are so it's a debate study it was it was a speech contest for nine-year-olds

[00:26:09] and there was a debate that were for younger teens and uh i still i was blown away and that would that's one of the things that inspired me to do toastmasters was because you know how powerful

[00:26:23] are those nine-year-olds going to be when they grow up that they already know how to get on the stage and public speak that's right and uh i learned a lot of ticks and techniques about speaking

[00:26:33] from that particular from judging that event and um so i can't say enough teacher kids how to to get on that stage it will open up doors that they will not have access to otherwise

[00:26:46] 300 yes so um i have two questions uh one is where do you see the space industry in the next 10 to 20 years this space prep building that you're creating is definitely a long view game

[00:27:01] and um so obviously you have some some ideas of where what you're going to see in the next 10 to 20 sure we do it uh anticipate space access points expanding within the us and beyond the us as the

[00:27:17] as the demand grows i see it as really the three the three arms of the industry continuing that's uh you know the military uh civil space and exploration and then commercial i think of the

[00:27:32] three commercial will probably predominate over the the next 10 years but the other two will be see will be significant players as well we know within the us the uh the department defense is

[00:27:44] looking looking very carefully at the cislunar space i think the michel institute just released a report on how the space force strategy is developing around cislunar space and no preventing south china sea type activity from happening out in space i think that's going to be a very important

[00:28:06] part of our national security and frankly global security as we move into the next 10 to 20 years and we have more and more traffic going out beyond geo and then to cislunar space and even beyond

[00:28:18] as well as the activities on the moon surface itself i think all of those things are going to become more commonplace and eventually then the next i'd say with the next 10 years

[00:28:31] space launches are going to be as ho hum as airplane takeoffs oh we can hope so yeah we're going to see that and we're going to see landings we're going to see things coming back as well

[00:28:43] i think it's going to become quite routine i think they're both just like we have tragedies in the air i think they're probably going to be accidents along the way our society is

[00:28:53] is resilient and uh you know there's a lot in creation that we have yet to explore and i think the the innate human need to explore will will never be extinguished and it's deciding

[00:29:05] to be be part of that definitely one of the things about security that i want to stress is that you know we live our lives based off satellites now and so those satellites need to be protected

[00:29:17] if you have any doubt just ask the ukraine their satellite was knocked out first before they were invaded and so it's it's very much something we've got to make sure that our

[00:29:28] dod is as strong as it can be and that our space presence is as strong as it can be so absolutely absolutely and i'll tell you the space forces doing a great job having a separate service

[00:29:42] specifically focused on space i think has been a a real boon to the to the country and it will increasingly so um so i i look forward to the next 2020 10 to 20 years i think it's going to be

[00:29:54] amazing and i'm glad that we're alive during this time to see a lot of it yeah absolutely absolutely you know with uh what's really exciting is what are our what are our kids and grandkids going to see

[00:30:05] oh my gosh if you go back to when you know i mean i remember when cell phones happened we had beepers before then and even before then you have a landline and if somebody called you

[00:30:17] and you did not pick up there was nothing you could do about it you had to call another time so um you know we've seen telephone we've seen i mean just just if you look back on just

[00:30:31] our short lives and what we've seen is going to be incredible what they see but when do you when do you think uh space tourism and and travel to space stations by the common

[00:30:43] person is going to happen how many years in the future well that's an interesting thing i actually did a lot with the space tourism conference um the 2021 was a big year we had Branson with

[00:30:57] virgin galactic going up we had um the SpaceX crew that's you know with Jared and um the inspiration for that was amazing we had the the rocket go up with blue origin that year it was

[00:31:16] just it looked like things were really changing and space tourism has had a really tough couple years and i think we've taken a step back on space tourism but i believe that it will become something

[00:31:28] that we do uh with space perspectives and there's a couple other balloon companies all around the world in in spain and japan i think that we're going to see that become commonplace

[00:31:39] that the space balloons especially and i personally think that it is vital to space to have space tourism so i want you to think about tourism in general in with airplanes and you know we go to another

[00:31:55] country we get to experience their culture we get to meet other people and the world becomes a smaller place and we have more friends on it and um and we appreciate the different cultures

[00:32:09] when if you are just stuck in a little bubble you don't realize how much value all those other cultures bring to the world and paint the world in beautiful colors so by having space tourism

[00:32:22] we're going to be able to see just how beautiful our planet is and maybe when we come back down we take better care of it so i believe space tourism is a vital step and and i can't wait

[00:32:35] for it to actually get some legs and really start to move right right it is an exciting aspect you know and the space tourism into space is one aspect but there the other aspect is suborbital

[00:32:47] type uh travel right point to point on the earth because space forces looking at that for defense purposes but there's also obvious commercial applications as well i think that's going to grow out of this industry too yeah new york to japan in 20 minutes oh my gosh yes

[00:33:05] that's a game changer for sure for sure so and that in hypersonic supersonic suborbital i mean it's just yeah we're living in a really awesome time we're right on the cusp all these technologies

[00:33:17] getting ready to really shoot out and be something right that's the one the power of the of this our economy you know we've got so many innovators that are developing new ideas new techniques

[00:33:31] new technologies new operational concepts and uh most of them will will not not succeed but the few that will will change will change the game and i like what you just said there you know most will

[00:33:44] not succeed in our world if you look at small businesses the the percentage rate of those that succeed is very small so when you look at the space and you know we've seen a lot of

[00:33:55] things like virgin orbit you know they they went bankrupt and but really we don't see i mean business is hard and space is hard and when you combine the two you know you're going to have things not

[00:34:09] succeed but that's just a part of business as well and it's it's having the and looking at how a business can be profitable and sustainable that's that's the beauty and obviously with all the

[00:34:23] experience that you have with creating businesses you have found that secret sauce so kudos to all that well what's exciting about it is you know the infrastructure play is uh is interesting because it really doesn't matter who wins whoever wins is going to need the infrastructure right

[00:34:43] so that's the appealing part of our entire business plan and cyber is also a part of your all points as well and i don't think that's going away anytime soon either so i mentioned that the

[00:34:56] space prep was not the first incubated spent off from all points the first one actually was a is or is a cyber company that's doing very well called more sweet and the more of them the better

[00:35:08] so definitely so okay my last question that i always ask is what thoughts do you want to leave our audience with today what do you want them to mull over as they go through that the day and say

[00:35:21] hmm i didn't realize that that was a thing well let me see here so this is a this is a marketing podcast right uh so i would suggest uh think about return on investment one of the challenges

[00:35:35] that we have in marketing is is developing some type of believable real notion of what is the return what is the value of any particular marketing investment right um and there's different ways to

[00:35:52] do it uh i've heard and i've seen many many different ways but i think as you're going about your daily business and you're looking at different marketing modes different channels different uh branding techniques

[00:36:06] think about what the value of each of those are and try to focus and prioritize on those that have the highest value back to your organization and as general guidance what i like to think of this

[00:36:19] is which of my marketing techniques is going to lead to the most sales so link marketing and sales and uh use that connection as a way to prioritize uh your marketing activities that's a good one

[00:36:33] and because at the end of the day the the one key indicator of success is did it actually make money for the company that's right revenue growth and bottom line growth that's a rich

[00:36:47] exactly and a lot of your marketing techniques you know you can you can say okay this marketing thing maybe it doesn't make a lot of money but the thing is this can you twist it and you turn it a little

[00:36:57] bit to where not only is it not costing you as much but maybe it even makes you a little so you know just be creative with your marketing and say how can i do this to where it doesn't

[00:37:09] cost as much and it makes me money so but thank you thank you so much for coming today and i can't wait to see you next week i appreciate the invitation yeah i would definitely look forward

[00:37:24] to it a special thanks to kevin brown from all points for sharing his journey to space be sure to check out his links listed in today's show notes please like and subscribe to the space

[00:37:37] marketing podcast to help us get the word out about this incredible inspiring industry of space i hope that you have found this podcast useful for your journey as you reach for the stars

[00:38:14] you may know you're listening to this show along the marketing podcast network but did you know there are other great shows on mpn to help your business christie heiler hosts a fantastic

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[00:38:34] less than one percent of ad agencies are owned by women and where can people subscribe you can find the podcast at until you own it dot com we're also on the marketing podcast network at marketing

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