Marketing rockets down under with Amanda Hudswell at Equatorial Launch Australia

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[00:00:37] Welcome to the Space Marketing Podcast where we look at marketing principles, strategies and tactics to the lens of space.

[00:00:45] Hi, I am your host Izzy House.

[00:00:48] And this year we are meeting space industry professionals and discussing how marketing strategies can help your company grow.

[00:00:56] On this episode, we will discuss the importance of creating a marketing plan.

[00:01:02] Our guest today is from Down Under.

[00:01:05] Amanda Hudswell from Equatorial Launch Australia.

[00:01:09] So lift off in 3, 2, 1.

[00:01:21] Welcome to the Space Marketing Podcast.

[00:01:26] Information relating to our discussion today and links to the video version can be found in the episode show notes on spacemarketingpodcast.com.

[00:01:36] Please like and subscribe to the podcast.

[00:01:39] It will help more people reach beyond the atmosphere.

[00:01:44] Information in this episode is for entertainment and information only.

[00:01:49] Please consult a professional for your specific situation.

[00:01:53] So in today's episode, we will be discussing the importance of a plan.

[00:02:00] A marketing plan provides a blueprint for your communication activities.

[00:02:05] A plan maximizes your effort by targeting the right people in your important audiences.

[00:02:13] And it determines the marketing activities that will most resonate with them.

[00:02:19] A plan transforms dreams into reality by establishing the steps necessary to take an idea to fruition.

[00:02:30] And finally, a plan provides clarity of action for the entire team.

[00:02:36] Everyone knows what they're supposed to do.

[00:02:40] In both my books, Space Marketing and Space Marketing Space Ports, I stress the importance of having a marketing plan.

[00:02:49] And I provide some tips to make that a little bit easier.

[00:02:53] Anyone who has been a listener to the podcast for a while knows that I have a soft spot for space ports.

[00:03:01] I mean, I wrote a book that has space ports in the title.

[00:03:07] And several months ago, a spaceport in Australia, the Equatorial Launch Australia or ELA,

[00:03:16] hired a new marketing person and I just had to meet her and let you meet her today.

[00:03:24] So please help me welcome Amanda Hudswell, Head of Marketing Communications and Public Affairs at the Equatorial Launch Australia or ELA.

[00:03:35] So welcome to the podcast, Amanda. How are you today?

[00:03:40] Hi Izzy, thank you so much for having me. I'm really well.

[00:03:43] It's morning over here. I've just gotten up some nice and fresh and ready for a chat about marketing and marketing plans.

[00:03:49] And I'm in the day before in the evening.

[00:03:52] So that is just what is my mind.

[00:03:55] It does. Yeah. We've got a team over in Colorado at the moment at the Space Symposium.

[00:04:00] And so there's a bit of a juggle with timeframes to connect with them, but we're managing it.

[00:04:05] The US is a little bit easier than Europe. So it's it's it's it's challenging, but it's great that we're over there traveling and connecting and engaging.

[00:04:14] Absolutely. And today for me, we just finished having the eclipse.

[00:04:19] So I got to see the eclipse. It was 95% for me for where I live.

[00:04:27] It was in the clouds parted just in time to where I had a, you know, I had a little mirror and I was looking at the reflection and the reflection.

[00:04:40] So I was in a double reflection situation with some tinting and I was able to actually see it.

[00:04:46] So it was phenomenal. I love that stuff.

[00:04:49] You know, one of the things I like to start with is a chance to get to meet you and find out.

[00:04:56] You know, a little bit more about you. So tell us about you and how you became interested in space.

[00:05:04] Sure. So I'm head of marketing at Equatorial Launch Australia.

[00:05:10] I guess my interest in space came it's probably a similar journey to I suspect a lot of people have always had that interest in space and always wanted to see the eclipses and I look up at the night sky and I can tell you that's a planet and that's a star.

[00:05:26] So there's always been that interest in space.

[00:05:29] But I guess when I sort of started working, there wasn't there wasn't a space industry in Australia. There certainly wasn't commercial space industry.

[00:05:41] So I just I worked in other other sectors.

[00:05:45] And I guess I started actually working in finance and decided really quickly I didn't want to work in finance.

[00:05:52] So I went and did a marketing postgrad.

[00:05:56] I have an undergrad in science and then wanted to combine those two.

[00:06:03] So I decided really about 20 years ago to get into space and technology communications and marketing.

[00:06:10] So I was really keen and excited by the stories that I was hearing coming out of companies and the technology and the space sector and all of that sort of thing.

[00:06:20] And I really wanted to tell those stories.

[00:06:23] So I managed to get into that and started working for a research company that was working in Wheaton Bali Research and I was communicating the techniques that they use genetic modification and selective breeding and those sorts of things.

[00:06:38] But you know, then I decided okay well I actually want to go and work with small companies with startups because it's so exciting to see somebody start with a really engaging kind of you know,

[00:06:49] visionary idea and see them on that journey to bring it to fruition.

[00:06:55] And I wanted to be part of that so left the research organization and went and worked for a startup support agency in Adelaide and we've got actually a really amazing community here and really great state government investment into emerging businesses.

[00:07:11] So they've the last sort of five to ten years they've invested heavily in startups and specifically in the high tech sector and specifically in space.

[00:07:19] So they've really just kind of generated this I guess ecosystem of these high tech companies that are coming up and it's just it's fantastic to kind of have positioned myself as a space or a tech and high tech marketer

[00:07:35] and then be able to sort of move into the space sector. So after working for that agency I went and worked in a startup for a while it was an aviation aerospace startup so it was kind of heading towards space

[00:07:45] and worked there for about four years and then my CEO at the moment Michael Jones connected with me last year and said look we really need to get somebody in house

[00:07:56] and just wanted to see what I was interested in and I literally jumped at the idea because you know this is it I was finally working in the space sector so it's a really an interesting kind of journey there but I ended up working in where I wanted to which is the space sector.

[00:08:13] Well and it sounds like you're the perfect person for them. I mean you have this aviation side which you know that is a big part of the live space port arena as well as the rocketry part so I mean wow that could not have been better.

[00:08:31] Australia is one of those countries that are just taking space and just running with it and you know can you tell us a little bit more about ELA Equatorial Launch Australia and in what it is that you were doing with them.

[00:08:48] Yeah sure so Equatorial Launch Australia is owner and operator of a space port in the Northern Territory so we're based here in Adelaide I'm here in Adelaide in South Australia we're at the bottom of Australia in the middle and we identified a spot up in the north of Australia which was perfect for a space port it's kind of on the eastern edge of one of the sections of Australia that kind of sticks up so we've got ability to launch over water.

[00:09:15] It's 12 degrees south of the equator so it's perfect to be able to provide Equatorial Launch orbits Equatorial orbits but we can also offer you know mid inclination and SSO and those sorts of orbits as well so it was just like that such a great opportunity to secure this land and we worked with the traditional owners of the land the Goumarch Corporation who are indigenous partners in this project so and we continue to work with them.

[00:09:45] We work closely with them to I guess develop the space port there they were really keen to bring space to their their region.

[00:09:55] And so I guess what we do what's unique about ELA so the space port that we own is called the Arnhem Space Centre so and what's unique about offering is that we so Michael Jones our CEO has traveled extensively met with lots of launch companies, lots of payload

[00:10:15] he's spoken at lots of conferences and he's really gathered in the last couple of years a really great understanding of what what what space ports need to have and he's developed he's led that vision and developed that so we've developed a couple of things we've developed a resident launcher business model where

[00:10:37] where it's almost like a bit of an airport for space we're bringing in launch vehicle companies to take up a designated space on the space port.

[00:10:47] We're calling it a sleek or a space launch complex and in that they'll get a horizontal integration facility that they get to use you know for themselves and a couple of launch pads so and those launch pads we've worked on have got latest text so we've

[00:11:04] you know incorporating things like thermal and acoustic protection to minimize pad damage so that we can reuse those pads, therefore you know reducing costs and reducing time to get the next launch up.

[00:11:17] And we're sort of simplifying rocket handling by having this really innovative into integration plate between the launch vehicle and the pad to help with just you know minimal configuration changes so we can increase the cadence of launch so there's some really cool tech going on

[00:11:33] here in the background. We're also offering horizontal integration facilities where there's things like you know ISO a clean rooms there's overhead gantries that can carry 20,000 kilos HVAC climate control rocket you know rocket assembly areas you know the buildings themselves are about 40 meters by 26 by about 12 high so they're the huge buildings that companies

[00:12:01] can just come in horizontally integrate vertically integrate in a clean room and then move it out to the launch pad and launch and it's their own dedicated facilities so it's kind of like a really cool offering where we're finding that this is just resonating with with our customers when we talk to them about it and we're really excited we've got we've

[00:12:21] already signed in a space which is a South Korean company launch company for some launches starting in 2025 and we were Michael's overseas at the moment he's we're expecting to kind of you know fill out seven launch pads or seven launch sorry space launch launch complexes within the next sort of 12 months they'll be they'll be fully booked so it's really exciting time for us and I love the fact that I'm working for a company that's got this vision you know that that's

[00:12:49] kind of saying okay what you know this is what we need in the world right now but actually looking five to 10 years ahead and saying yeah let's set it up so that we're this you know we're future proofing this spaceport it's really exciting I saw a picture of your facility so are they actually built yet or are they in the process of being built.

[00:13:11] Yeah we're redeveloping it at the moment so there's one launch pad that was we actually launched with NASA three times in 2022, which is a pretty cool reference customer to have.

[00:13:23] You know that's yeah they did some sub orbital launches with us and they were the first time NASA had launched commercially out of the US outside of the US.

[00:13:33] And they were Australia's first commercial launches so it was kind of like really big news for us.

[00:13:39] And yeah so with there's a pad that's already there from them and then we're building the rest of them as well but one of the things we're doing is working with the companies as they start to tell us exactly what they need and what the rocket configuration is and all of that sort of thing.

[00:13:51] You know we're working with them to make sure that it's perfectly designed for them.

[00:13:54] So what size rockets are you looking at launching or you know there's the big Atlas you know huge rockets and then there's the smaller ones that can probably have a better cadence.

[00:14:07] So what size are you looking at.

[00:14:09] We're looking for new space rockets that are launching telecommunications satellites or Earth observation and those sorts of things so it is that smaller end of the small it's more to medium end of the market that we're engaging with.

[00:14:20] Which is probably one of the more important.

[00:14:24] I mean we talk about crew a lot but the fact of the matter is that everything we do including our little conversation here is all run by satellite so satellites are so imperative to our daily life.

[00:14:38] You know one of the things that when you first started doing this at ELA was this is this their first marketing person that they've had on staff.

[00:14:48] Yeah good question actually that was something I wanted to talk about today.

[00:14:52] We've had a digital specialist on on staff so somebody managing social media and that sort of thing and I think I was I was brought in to sort of oversee the program itself and build out media side of it you know engagement community building that sort of thing.

[00:15:04] We when we had the NASA program we use an external agency and they did a fabulous job of what they you know the event management side of it the media engagement.

[00:15:14] But I guess that kind of brings up this kind of you know question that the founders I guess always have is like do I outsource my marketing or do I bring somebody in when's the right time to do that.

[00:15:26] And I think that was the right move for us at that stage but of course you know the NASA NASA campaign happened and then if you know life goes on the world moves on and we sort of didn't quite leverage that on an ongoing sense so because you know it was an agency and you know they weren't on a retainer they were employed to do a specific project.

[00:15:48] So I guess last year Michael decided no I think we need somebody in in house to kind of manage this day to day program and kind of build the reputation day on day so that we're starting to cut through and get some brand awareness overseas and particularly with our customers.

[00:16:03] I mean we had a really great program where he was going out and meeting with them so sort of like an outbound kind of program but yeah that sort of inbound that storytelling you know the media side of it we we sort of needed to kind of ramp up.

[00:16:18] Yeah the planning part which you know I saw him a couple of months ago at the GSA Space Port Summit and you can only travel so many places I mean it's you know.

[00:16:33] With where Australia is located everything is a flight.

[00:16:38] Yes, it's just you can only be so many places at once so when you have a plan things can work as a rotation as you know in get the get some momentum where when you just do a one and done purchase.

[00:16:54] It's like renting a car you know once you're done you have no car.

[00:16:59] And when I start a new project the first thing that I like to do is create a marketing plan it develops a picture of who the what the why the where the when and how it tells a big story about who you're talking to so that you can really craft those messages that resonate.

[00:17:19] So can you tell us why you developed a written plan and writing it down how important is that.

[00:17:27] It's like any any sort of plan it's like the business plan as well you know the company will have a business plan to say we want to target these customers we want to generate this amount of sales.

[00:17:36] So the marketing plan is just an extension of that and I always say the first thing I do when I walk into a company is okay show me your business plan because if the marketing plan has to support and assist and help achieve the goals within the business plan it's no good the marketing plan going oh we're going to go and talk to high school students about something you know it's.

[00:17:58] When the business is trying to connect with you say satellite manufacturers in Europe so you have to you really have to kind of like understand what the business is trying to do at that time.

[00:18:08] And then bring in that marketing plan to support those activities from an engagement and communication sense.

[00:18:14] Yeah start off with the who you know and the goals that you're going to be doing.

[00:18:20] If you don't know who you're talking to then it's just it's just not going to land it's like throwing throwing a dart at a bullseye and then you know ending up all the way down the hall.

[00:18:33] You say exactly you know you need to understand the who and for creatives.

[00:18:39] I've for one I always think of that person in my head whenever I'm working on anything and so it's critical that's the first thing that I do is determine the goals and the who.

[00:18:53] I think that's really important because that's one of the reasons why bringing in somebody with a bit of commercial background and a marketer.

[00:19:02] They bring that sense of always thinking about it from the audience's perspective and they actually you know they tend to be across the trends in the sector as well so they can kind of go okay.

[00:19:12] The audience this particular audience so knowing your customer personas is really important identifying who it is you want to speak to but for this particular audience that particular issue is really important.

[00:19:23] And so this is the news that you have let's work out how that fits in with the needs and what's going to resonate with that audience so it is about kind of really tailoring your message and knowing that you have multiple audiences.

[00:19:36] There might be one audience that you really want to speak with more than others your primary audience and that will change over time as your business progresses and as your business plan changes.

[00:19:45] But yeah just understanding that you're you are speaking to potentially a primary or couple of primary audiences but you're also speaking to your broader audience set as well.

[00:19:54] Hold on to your boosters. We will be right back with guest Amanda Hudswell head of marketing communications and public affairs at Equatorial Launch Australia after the briefest message from our sponsors.

[00:20:10] Please like and subscribe to the Space Marketing Podcast so you don't miss a thing.

[00:20:32] And you're not going to have just one you know you just have one for example you know you have your community which is the Aboriginal people.

[00:20:42] So they're going to have a completely different set of pain points and concerns and things that are important to them that you need to talk about that is not going to be the provider the launch program.

[00:20:55] It's not going to be the providers or the companies that are going to be tenants or even different.

[00:21:02] You're going to have the high schools.

[00:21:04] How are you going to resonate with them so that they choose careers that are in this space industry and not necessarily engineering or stem though those are good but a lot of other different.

[00:21:18] I mean we're not stem particular people.

[00:21:20] I mean you do have some S in your background but you know we're marketing professionals. We're business professionals.

[00:21:29] So you know it's not going to be just one message with one group of people and it's important to make sure that you have several different dynamics going on.

[00:21:41] For example if you're a spaceport and you're not paying attention to your surrounding community.

[00:21:49] It can kill the project. We're having that happen a lot here in the States.

[00:21:54] We're just a small group of people are saying we don't want it out of our backyard and it's determining a lot of things so it's really important to craft those messages.

[00:22:06] That stakeholder engagement piece is really important. I agree.

[00:22:10] Yeah it's and it's also about knowing what channels those audiences are on.

[00:22:15] So for instance we we post to a Facebook group that's in that area the surrounding area of our spaceport because we know that the locals access that particular Facebook channel but we know that more than likely the launch companies in Europe or US or wherever are probably looking more at LinkedIn

[00:22:33] or already in the sort of trade publications or those sorts of things.

[00:22:38] So it is about understanding your audience, understanding that customer persona and really knowing where is that they seek out their information because that's where you should be.

[00:22:47] Exactly and the message crafting that story that really resonates with them is critical.

[00:22:55] Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:22:56] So other things that a plan may have is it outlines the message and how it feels and what's the flavor to it but it also determines the strategies and tactics as well as how to measure them.

[00:23:12] So do you want to talk about that?

[00:23:13] So it's funny because I often use an example here which people can sometimes look at me a bit weirdly when I use this example but it kind of I want to make a point and it's you know like if given enough resources I could develop a device to bounce my logo off the moon

[00:23:30] and that would be amazing. Like the whole world would know about it. People would be on social media about it.

[00:23:34] There'd be traditional media stories about it but two weeks later you know would anyone care?

[00:23:41] Would we have actually achieved the goals that we're trying to achieve back to the marketing plan?

[00:23:45] You know what is it that we're actually trying to do?

[00:23:47] Are we trying to increase sales in Europe or are we trying to position ourselves in an Asian market or whatever?

[00:23:52] Would that activity have actually achieved those goals?

[00:23:56] Yeah, probably not.

[00:23:57] You know you probably I probably would have been better attending conferences in Asia or Europe or trying to place media in those areas.

[00:24:06] So you know the tactics it's really important to follow the steps of that strategy to kind of go okay what are your aims and objectives?

[00:24:15] Who is your message? Who is your audience?

[00:24:17] And then what do you want to say to them? How are you going to speak to them?

[00:24:21] How are we going to get access to them which is your strategy and then what are you actually going to do that to your tactics?

[00:24:25] So you know it's about following that process so that you can make sure that you're maximizing and optimizing your budgets and your resources

[00:24:34] because it's very easy to spend money on things that don't actually generate results.

[00:24:40] And I love to be scrappy. You know a lot of times when you're creating that plan and you're starting to go down those rabbit holes

[00:24:48] you come up with other ideas you never even thought of.

[00:24:50] So actually constructing the plan is just as valuable as the plan itself.

[00:24:57] And you can say okay you know what if I could do this?

[00:25:01] And then you ask well how can I do that with no budget because I don't care what company or very few companies actually have budgets to burn.

[00:25:11] And so we're all on a budget.

[00:25:13] So how can we do the most impact without budget?

[00:25:19] And sometimes you'll come up with a strategy or tactic that is completely different than what you thought it would be but yet it's phenomenal.

[00:25:29] So you know that plan is very important.

[00:25:34] Yeah definitely it's amazing when you actually follow that process.

[00:25:38] You do absolutely agree with what you said.

[00:25:41] You do find that you think in a certain way that will lead you down a certain path and things you might not have just generally jumped to having gone

[00:25:50] or let's do some social media or let's get a media article in that publication.

[00:25:53] You actually think about okay you know what it might actually be better to do an event in that particular situation

[00:25:58] because that's what that would resonate with that particular audience.

[00:26:01] So yeah it's I just can't you know a marketing plan is so important.

[00:26:07] It's also a living document so it will change over time.

[00:26:10] So something that you need to make sure you're being flexible with and incorporating changes and testing.

[00:26:17] So measurement is something that I really wanted to talk about too where you make sure you're evaluating what you're doing

[00:26:24] and checking that you know the analytics are achieving what you want them to do.

[00:26:28] Are you actually being honest are you actually achieving what you want to achieve.

[00:26:32] And if it's not working that's actually good cheap because then you know okay let's cut the spend there and direct it to something else

[00:26:39] or how can we optimize that or improve it.

[00:26:42] So there's a number of different things that a strategy will help with.

[00:26:46] And one of the interesting things about measurement that it tells you is sometimes it can fit to you too.

[00:26:53] It can lie to you.

[00:26:54] It can tell you oh this isn't working but maybe it's the wrong channel.

[00:26:59] Maybe it's just the wrong time.

[00:27:02] So it is it is very difficult sometimes to figure out what works and what doesn't.

[00:27:08] And sometimes time is the person but as you're watching you're able to sit there and manipulate it tweak it

[00:27:16] and maybe make it a little bit better because you're concerned with it.

[00:27:21] Yeah I agree.

[00:27:22] Sometimes the numbers lie.

[00:27:24] Yeah exactly but I think the process needs to be that you sort of track it over time so that you can see the changes.

[00:27:32] So you know one of the first things you can do when you walk into an organization as a marketer is set up some sort of thing.

[00:27:39] Pick three you know I guess analytics or metrics that you want to measure and then just track those

[00:27:44] and you might find that they need to change over time but things like you know what are your engagement rates

[00:27:48] and you know how many if you're looking at new followers to a channel like what's your new followers those sorts of things

[00:27:54] what a click-through rate so sorts of I guess little tiny metrics that you can just track and competitor analysis is another really great thing to track as well.

[00:28:02] We had a really great result this week we've been tracking against 10 other companies competitors and sort of some key space companies in Australia.

[00:28:11] I've been tracking them for a couple of months and we've been ranking about fourth for new followers and just this week in the last month we ranked first.

[00:28:21] So I was so excited to see when I opened up the page I was like oh my god we just jumped and that was on the back of some paid social that we had been doing

[00:28:31] and we've been running it for a couple of months and it's just starting to show results now.

[00:28:34] So things do take time and you do need to give them some time and let them kind of run and see how they pan out and you know if that we'll double down on that now

[00:28:45] but if it wasn't working we'd cut it and try something else.

[00:28:48] Well you know that's the fun bit is to actually set everything in motion and watch it work.

[00:28:56] Yeah it's like and to achieve the results is just so rewarding.

[00:29:00] Yes it is.

[00:29:02] I mean it's what gives us the juice to just check it one more time to see if we're getting close to that platform you know that or that number.

[00:29:11] But at the end of the day the number that really is important is the finance.

[00:29:19] You know is it adding to the bottom line.

[00:29:21] You can do all these fun things and you cannot do all these metrics but if it's not bringing in income for the business it won't last.

[00:29:31] So you know some of it you cannot actually tie a dollar to it you can just watch everything grow but things that don't be things that do not have attention tend to fade away.

[00:29:46] So we want to make yeah so this is a part of bringing that attention.

[00:29:52] And I guess the other thing about you know tracking your metrics and how they're performing is that you can then show value of the marketing program to you know your C-suite so that you can go back and say look over this amount of time we've managed to increase X by Y whatever you know and also making sure you keep yourself accountable to that.

[00:30:12] So you know things aren't working.

[00:30:14] You can say look that isn't working so we've decided to cut that and we've reinvested over here.

[00:30:19] So you know it does marketing such a hard thing to being a creative kind of I guess some aspect of business.

[00:30:29] It is a really hard thing to put sort of to point to and go yes that's been achieved.

[00:30:33] So being able to track anything that we can and social media is such a great you know there's so much data there for us to be able to use but it's harder to kind of track I guess a bit of the softer things like so what was the was the exhibition at a certain conference successful.

[00:30:49] How do you measure that maybe it's foot traffic through the booth or you know a number of leads generated or whatever but you know being there definitely be something that you can track to say yep you know what we achieved what we wanted to achieve.

[00:31:02] And like social media if let's go back there you know some of the what is the important bits of social media is not necessarily immediately apparent.

[00:31:14] It's like if you are changing the culture around you to be more inclusive of space.

[00:31:19] Then you're not really going to see that initially but on down the line those are your pipeline for your future employees.

[00:31:29] So that's where you're going to start to see them.

[00:31:31] That's where you're new inventors and your new companies that are happening around the area.

[00:31:38] That's where you see them actually kind of growing as well so sometimes it's not the necessarily the digital part that you're tracking.

[00:31:45] There's a lot of non digital stuff that you're tracking as well.

[00:31:49] So it's a really good point.

[00:31:53] Yeah, no it is it is it's what you touched on there about the like for instance we've considered this where our spaceport is set up.

[00:32:02] We understand it's actually in a town it's near a town called Nullaboy it's about 30 40 days away from this town called Nullaboy.

[00:32:08] Nullaboy was established as a mining town so it's actually quite quite big for a remote town.

[00:32:16] It has you know B737 capable airport it's got roll and roll off port access it's got deep water port it's just there's lots of infrastructure there that we're able to use as well.

[00:32:26] But what we've what we've understood the mining aspect of that is slowly being removed from the town and so the town is now looking for alternative industries and to come in I guess and sort of you know keep the town alive.

[00:32:40] And so we acknowledge that that's we're not going to be able to fill the entire shoes of the marketing efforts that were there sorry the mining efforts that were there but we will definitely be able to add some value to that and to be able to bring high tech to the to that area as well as really important.

[00:32:55] So last year we did a road trip where we did like an in a business engagement I guess initial meet con con what would we say a business engagement roadshow and we went up there met with local businesses and we talked about what our program was going to be doing.

[00:33:11] And you know just to kind of get them to start thinking OK you know what there is still life here and there is a way that I can perhaps pivot my business slightly to be able to service the space industry instead of the mining industry so there's you know even that having been able to kind of give that to the community there is is a great result for us.

[00:33:30] And as marketing professional for us to look at that that that surrounding area and say OK what are the key things that makes this area unique. What are the services that they have to offer and what are some of the things that maybe they are not thinking our space related that can be tweaked to be space related like in our particular area.

[00:33:53] We are surrounded by river that goes right to the Gulf. So we may not be able to launch rockets but we can build them. And so you look at what those areas have that are strengths and you're able to utilize those for space because there are so many different industries that have space components to them that people don't even realize.

[00:34:17] And our job is to be that megaphone for saying hey did you know that space is a part of that. Yes telling stories is I think one of the challenges of space marketers at the moment is being able to talk about is being able to get the audiences that we're trying to speak to and almost just the general public to understand that space is part of their lives.

[00:34:45] And that's what what's going to build the advocacy which is then going to influence government which is then going to help stimulate you know policy and investment and those sorts of things. So that's our challenge I think at the moment is to work out how we can actually tell those stories.

[00:35:00] And connect it and connect it to them personally. You know exactly yeah I mean I've had people that said well what do we need space for while they're sitting there holding their cell phone after they've looked up their directions and their weather and all that.

[00:35:17] And I'm like yeah you know it's a part of everything you do everything from agriculture to you know watching the waters you know for illegal fishing and in in with the human trafficking. It's important for all those things. So it is.

[00:35:40] It's part of our story. Yes it is it's hard to. So for instance you know space can help with agriculture space can help with mining but those those industries are also struggling to tell their stories you know and the relevance to the everyday person as well so it's not enough for us to just say oh well we can help with agriculture or we can help with mining we actually need to be able to say this is how we help you on a day to day basis and things like pharmaceutical manufacturing in space that can perhaps develop drugs that might be able to help with someone who's got cancer.

[00:36:10] That then brings it in closer to people that go okay well you know actually that's going to be a really great outcome for me personally because I've been affected by that in my family so you know it being able to really deep dive into those things there's.

[00:36:22] There's a really great book by Donald Miller called building a story branch which talks about the story telling have you read that yeah it's really great and I love is.

[00:36:33] I love his idea of you know there's a hero who has a problem who meets a guide who gives them a plan.

[00:36:40] It calls them to action and then I think it's to stop you know to avoid failure and achieve success and it's a seven point kind of process and if you know when we're storytelling if we keep things like that he calls it the SB seven framework and if we keep things like that in mind.

[00:36:56] That's how they write movies that's why movies are successful because you know you have that emotive kind of connection with the story and.

[00:37:04] It's important for us as a story storytellers for our industries and I consider myself an executive creator so someone who can tell business stories to keep that in mind because we do need to have that emotive connection because we're all humans and that's where we start to kind of you know have those build those relationships between.

[00:37:23] Individuals and companies one of the most important things that I was able to get from that book was that as a marketer as a company when you're doing your message that your audience is the hero.

[00:37:38] Yes yes yes you are the guide you are the mentor and.

[00:37:45] Yes exactly critical.

[00:37:49] It is because oftentimes you will you know it's it's so different to telling the story to say you know say you're a launch vehicle company and you.

[00:37:57] You tell a story about a payload customer who might be sending up satellites to help identify and you know predict bushfires and you know you tell that story from that perspective from the payload customers perspective and hey we're with a launch vehicle that got them up to space because they couldn't access space because.

[00:38:15] You know space port congestion at the moment it's huge you know there was going to be.

[00:38:21] You know lots of time before they could actually get up there perhaps two years but we managed to get them up there because perhaps they came to our space port in in the end of Space Center and you know they were successful and managed to get those those satellites up and start sort of you know sensing and detecting and those sorts of things so that's a great story it's better than saying something like we're a launch company come and launch with us.

[00:38:44] We great.

[00:38:46] Yeah it's just got so much more to that that a motive kind of storytelling than it has to kind of you know and you know it's different but so that might be a case study that you put on your website something about as a launch vehicle company how you've engaged with the payload customers and here's a case study but there's also value to say media releases which are here's the news and here's the you know the rest of it that you might need to know so it's again using lots of different channels and tactics.

[00:39:09] So when we're talking create when you know we're creating those messages and the stories to connect with the audience with you know we are the guide where the mentor and the companies that are in search of.

[00:39:25] They have a problem they have a villain which but pretty much a problem that they're dealing with that they're looking for a solution to that's their quest.

[00:39:38] So when we create a message that resonates with them we're we're helping them with their quest so that they can be successful and yeah it's not about us.

[00:39:50] Yes I think marketing based around that concept of identifying the customers problem and then talking about how you solve that problem is just so critical because that is how you get into people's feeds and that's just scroll stoppers so to speak that's what people go oh yeah that's my problem how do you solve it.

[00:40:08] Oh that's interesting you know so yeah it's making sure that it's not about us it's about the customer and the solution that we're doing or providing when they can see themselves in your message when they sit there and they go.

[00:40:20] Oh that's me.

[00:40:22] Yeah you just resonated and that is really truly the goal so what are some marketing challenges that you have encountered with this this ELA project and how have you dealt with them.

[00:40:37] Yeah so some of the marketing challenges I guess yeah we're running a small we're running a space startup so a budget is always a big I guess challenge for us also obviously Australia being where it is can be a bit of a challenge to communicate the fact that we're actually an island nation we're actually really good at getting stuff here.

[00:40:56] So you know logistics of getting to the country which sometimes people think hang on a second you're really far away actually we're not you know we're living in 2024 right now.

[00:41:06] And as a country we're so used to bringing things in on on ships on you know by air freight or whatever that we've we've solved a lot of that issue so kind of trying to communicate that to our audiences and our customers is it has been challenging and to break down I guess stereotypical I guess.

[00:41:26] So I've got a lot of exceptions of where Australia is and how far it is away. It's not that far anymore. The world is a small place now it's getting smaller every day.

[00:41:38] Like I said you just the fact that we're sitting here having a chat. I mean how small has the world gotten that we can just it wasn't that long ago to where this was number one a really expensive phone call.

[00:41:50] Number one and number two if the other people had a phone and here we are without even thinking about it online.

[00:42:01] Just just having a chat and where we're 13 hours apart so you know thank you to space you know that's yes because we're going to space yeah and it's part of you know it's one of those things where when your technology becomes part of the furniture and then you know you can just go back and have a chat.

[00:42:20] And people just assume that it's there and it's functioning and don't have to think about it anymore not you know it's just yeah it's there. That's when you know your technology has been successful you know like mobile phones and the ability for us to just have this conversation without even thinking twice about it.

[00:42:34] You know that's examples of great technology becoming just integrated into society.

[00:42:39] So what are some of the marketing strategies that you have like oh my gosh this this this worked so well this was beyond what I thought this could work and what are some that you have found to be super successful that you can share with us.

[00:42:57] That may be a little surprising too.

[00:43:00] Look I guess one of the main things the thing that keeps surprising me about how effective it is is paid social so paid advertising on social media.

[00:43:11] So like for instance I just gave you that example of the fact that we have just done this little tiny campaign over a couple of months and it's pushed us to between the competitors that we're tracking.

[00:43:24] It's pushed us to number one and that that video is a countdown three two one and a vision of one of those NASA rockets launching and then just follow us for space port updates you know and like that has been so incredibly successful for us to generate.

[00:43:40] I think we've built our followers by 25% in two months and when I started here it was you know almost half that so it's yeah it's crazy to kind of think how successful it's been.

[00:43:51] And how you know I guess boosting posts and using I guess the algorithms within these social media platforms and kind of understanding how they work is really important so you can either you can boost a post or sponsor a post which is an organic post that sits on your feed.

[00:44:10] So then it's shown organically to your followers but it's also perhaps you saying to the to the platform say LinkedIn.

[00:44:18] I just I'll just show this in America or just show this in Asia or whatever and it will it will show it in that region.

[00:44:25] You can show it to people who've only got space in their profiles or some sort of space aspect or engineering and it's just a matter of then the algorithm goes away you put some spend behind it so it's you know prime to then deliver it to those those audiences and it's amazing how.

[00:44:40] Much that helps you get in front of the right audiences it's so much more effective then posting organically and just crossing fingers and hoping that people will like your your.

[00:44:50] Post or your content and that it that it ends up in their feed you know there's all these social platforms of businesses so you've got to accept that you're going to have to put some money behind your campaigns to be able to achieve what you're trying to achieve.

[00:45:04] And they're only going to reward you so much unless you have paid.

[00:45:07] Because you know that's their business model and it's.

[00:45:15] You've got to pay to play and the algorithms I'd like to talk a little bit go down a little bit of a rabbit hole with algorithms.

[00:45:24] This is one of the reasons why you need a marketing professional is because you have these algorithms it's like a secret recipe and that nobody knows.

[00:45:33] Not even the people that work at the social marketing you know social media places they don't even know.

[00:45:39] And so just as you think you've got it figured out and just as it's starting to work.

[00:45:44] They come up with an update that makes it to where it doesn't work anymore so you.

[00:45:49] Actually need to have somebody that is constantly just paying attention and learning and trying new things and it will come to a day where the things that worked yesterday don't necessarily work today.

[00:46:05] So and you know that is also one of our challenges as marketing professionals is that it's constantly moving like.

[00:46:12] Trying to to shoot a bull's eye at a moving target.

[00:46:18] Yeah exactly you've said it perfectly because it goes back to that measurement to making sure that you're keeping on top of this as well because if suddenly your analytics have dropped off you're thinking oh what's happened here it could be because of that it could be because of a you know hyper reasons so having somebody as their job to be able to get into the business.

[00:46:32] Okay I'm on top of this and I understand that there's algorithms at play understand that there's competitors in the mix and they might have we haven't even talked about SEO yet but they might have kind of perhaps that my pops are doing a campaign around a particular keyword phrase or whatever so you know there's a heap of different I guess some levers.

[00:46:47] That can affect you know how you're performing and being having somebody dedicated to that is really important for a company if you are really going to take this seriously.

[00:46:57] And why do analytics change and one of the reasons has been that you know you're not doing anything like that, you know you're not doing anything like that.

[00:47:04] And being having somebody dedicated to that is really important for a company if you are really going to take this seriously.

[00:47:12] And why do analytics change and one of the reasons is because you know they're again social media platforms are businesses.

[00:47:23] They have to make money but they also have to make the user experience a good one.

[00:47:29] And one of the things that affects the analytics and makes these updates happen is the bad players that are in these these particular platforms.

[00:47:40] You know those the spammers the predators and and those things and that's why they're constantly changing and what works today doesn't work tomorrow is and and that's one of the reasons I mean I hate I hate spammers is like they wreck everything.

[00:47:58] That's working.

[00:48:00] So yeah, it is of mine.

[00:48:03] Well I think it's important to make sure that we're always vigilant against that sort of thing and that kind of leads into you know having perhaps a customer relationship management tool like CRM and then you know having a database that you communicate with you need to make sure that you are you're aligned with privacy legislation so like the GDPR in Europe and and the various private

[00:48:28] legal regulations that are around the world because first of all you don't want to break the law and you don't want to be right but also yeah it what we're doing is we're setting a standard for society to say this is where you know we understand people don't want to get all this spam they've got lives they need to be able to

[00:48:44] you know function and my inbox is ridiculous sometimes but you know it's it's it's one of those things that as a society we're saying this is where we draw the line and this is where we want everybody to be to be you know to be value adding to our audiences.

[00:49:01] And that's another reason why you need somebody on staff to actually monitor and and babysit these platforms is because you do have bad actors that do start to do things with your audience like for example they may respond inappropriately to your post and you have to go through

[00:49:19] and you have to clean them up so that your audience the real people are not sitting there going oh I'm out of here.

[00:49:28] Yeah, I absolutely agree in fact the post that I just talked about with the video that we put some spend behind it's amazing how quickly people jump on onto that in the comments section and they'll put something in a click here for this particular service that they sell or whatever.

[00:49:42] And we're just you know either deleting or hiding or whatever those particular posts but also yeah that sometimes people people just something maybe they just don't have their trolls essentially they don't have enough time you know they have too much time on their hands and enough to do.

[00:49:57] And they seem to have kind of like this hasn't particularly happened for LA but I have this has happened for previous employers where it's just they're just clearly out to just kind of have a platform to have a wind on or and sometimes people get.

[00:50:14] Yeah, kind of rude.

[00:50:16] It's like really really do you really want to say that online.

[00:50:19] So that actually leads to something else which is on our platforms we have a social media policy so that will we won't tolerate racism we won't tolerate hate speech we won't tell right religion religious commentary we won't tell the right political commentary this is a platform for discussion about our product your needs.

[00:50:37] You know that sort of things is where our community is so to be able to state that then gives you leverage later on when you want to go no I'm going to block that person because you know you've broken our policy so be clearly stating that somewhere in your profile is really important to.

[00:50:52] And sometimes it's hard to really distinguish between a troll and a fan that's just very concerned and is letting you know because a lot of times they can sound almost similar.

[00:51:05] And, you know that again, it's it's it's a bit of a judgment there with that social policy and when do you block them.

[00:51:17] You know because sometimes if you block somebody and they were within their rights.

[00:51:24] There's just that fine line.

[00:51:26] Yeah, they get grumpy.

[00:51:29] Yeah, it is it's it is a really fine line and it's about making sure that you have somebody checking these things daily so that you know but also on the flip side when someone comments positively you want to they're engaging with you they're spending their time to part of their day you know I'm sure they really do.

[00:51:47] They're really busy to actually take the time to engage and say something on your post it's it's kind of up to us then to go thanks for that even if it's just making making sure everything gets liked or.

[00:51:59] Just saying hey thanks for the comment or if it's a question getting back to them so we've got a 48 hour policy at the moment that just means that we can make sure that we can get to things over the weekends as well but we tend to sort of reply as quickly as we can to any questions or comments because.

[00:52:15] Yeah we value these people this it's you know they're so valuable to our business you know so we want to keep them we want to make sure we're monitoring and managing.

[00:52:24] I guess trolls or just people who are using that our tools in ways that we don't want them to use them.

[00:52:31] And sometimes when somebody is being negative and being a grumpy and everything everybody else is actually watching to see how we deal with it.

[00:52:39] I go how we deal with something that has gone wrong can reflect just as positively on us as some you know somebody that's given a good comment because.

[00:52:51] You know the days are not always positive but how do you deal with it do you just sweep it under the carpet or do you actually deal with it and and talk about it and you know give people good perspective so.

[00:53:04] Yeah I think so it's it's important because if you can take that person on a bit of a conversation through comments to address what they've said and there's a bit of to infer this happened particularly in a company that I used our last work for.

[00:53:17] And then you if you can get to the point where you've almost solved the problems you've answered all the questions that in itself is amazing marketing you know that is as you say people are watching this and somebody else might have had that concern but not you know had enough or not been interested enough or not.

[00:53:34] What's the word not not been I guess.

[00:53:37] Well who wants to be a target.

[00:53:39] Yeah I was thinking about it but I didn't want to say anything because I didn't want the backlash of some trolls and so I just you know but I I I valued what they were saying.

[00:53:51] Yeah there's a lot of that there's a lot of watching yeah for every person who comments there's you know hundreds just watching so you know there is value in having that conversation publicly I think maybe 10 years ago we let's take this offline and and we'll deal with that customer or particular person or comment to you know individually I think now there is value to that I think it's a case by case thing you kind of you know you need to make sure that you know what is being said if it's about your product then answer the questions you know and just kind of.

[00:54:21] Your opinions won't be changed and that's okay everybody's entitled to that and not everybody's our customer and not everybody's our audience so perhaps it's not right for that person.

[00:54:31] Exactly exactly.

[00:54:33] So okay.

[00:54:34] So the good stuff where do you see space happening in the next 10 to 20 years because most of what you're doing is in the future.

[00:54:45] It's planning for those that that next 10 years that happened that next 20 years so where do you see everything going.

[00:54:54] Yeah I think the space sector I think obviously I'm in Australia so I think what I'll see in the next 10 to 20 years and what we'll see is a real maturing of the Australian space sector I think that that will be industry led.

[00:55:10] And I think it's going to be on the back of what we have done in the last 10 to 15 years so the investment in startups the investment in you know founder mentality that we've had here and the encouragement and the seeding of the space sector here coupled with an opportunity because Australia's space sector is nowhere near as advanced or mature as the US space sector European one.

[00:55:35] So I think what we're doing at the moment is is we're growing founders and we're growing people who have you know high tech backgrounds and those sorts of things they were going okay we're pointing them at a sector that's just right for opportunity and Australia will leverage its unique geography and it's geopolitical stability and you know there's there's a lot of value that

[00:55:55] we've got low population density here we've got vast areas of central Australia that have zero population so you know there's there's some uniqueness about Australia that I think we're actually going to start maturing in that in that time frame.

[00:56:10] And just like what I was talking about the resources and in the what you have available to you, the fact that you have a lot of harsh landscape. Well you know what Mars and the moon are not exactly friendly.

[00:56:26] So this is a beautiful test bed for some of these situations.

[00:56:31] And it is kind of determine you know how you live in those harsh environments.

[00:56:36] And so I think that leads into what I was going to say globally about the sector which is that you know look just like my son is into motorsport he loves it and you know I think about motorsport and I think about well, you know there's things like traction control and disc brakes and ABS that were all developed in motorsport in racing that are now moved into have moved into just you know cars generally for

[00:57:01] for the safety of the general car driver essentially and passengers.

[00:57:06] And I think space offers that opportunity to us as well so you know if we can take space space is harsh you know those climates are harsh if we can learn to live in and I guess prosper and thrive in those environments then the, I guess the learnings that will take from that can then be fed back to to people on earth you know like I think in one of your

[00:57:31] recent podcasts you were talking about what learning how to wash with less water.

[00:57:36] You know how awesome would that be if we could bring that that knowledge back to us to earth and go okay well you know what we don't actually need to use all this water for washing now.

[00:57:45] You know another great story so you know I think that that's where we'll see the space sector to go generally going things like point to point travel into planetary exploration absolutely I mean we're on that journey already so I think we'll see advances in those areas

[00:58:01] and when we go into those harsh environments and we physically are there.

[00:58:06] We learn about a lot about human body that we did not know before, you know we learn about our tolerances and our needs to be able to survive in those areas that great yep, you know with space if it wasn't for space we wouldn't even know because

[00:58:24] space tends to accelerate some of those areas like aging osteoporosis they're doing a lot of studies in that because we lose bone density very quickly up there.

[00:58:35] Yeah, agree.

[00:58:36] And also I think things like crops in space so I think the Artemis III mission is looking at growing crops on the moon I think I read something about that recently and I think back to where I worked you know 15 years ago.

[00:58:49] I remember the scientists at the research center saying hey you know what we're going to have a population of like 9 billion by 2040.

[00:58:57] Not only do we have more mouths to feed but we've got less land to grow crops on and they were that back then talking about okay well what do we do we think do we things like grow crops on the sea you know on the surface of the ocean and how do we make them

[00:59:09] felt tolerant and able to resist abiotic stresses but using space to grow crops like how awesome is that we can you know all that land that we're currently devoting to that could be we could be using space for that and then you know there's more there's

[00:59:22] more crops there's more there's more land.

[00:59:25] There's I think necessity drives innovation and that's something that we're as a society going to have to deal with it, you know in the coming next decade and also

[00:59:36] the last question I like to ask is what thoughts do you want to leave your audience with today. What do you want them to think about as they go through their day going I actually never thought of that and wow this is pretty awesome.

[00:59:54] You know things like paid social media obviously definitely something that I think is worth investigating if you're not doing it already. If you're a space startup, have a look at that.

[01:00:04] Definitely building building your own database is so important because third party cookies are being phased out. So what we need to be doing is collecting first party data so if you put a subscribe function on your website and then hook that up to something that

[01:00:20] you've already checked that email information, you're building that database and it's amazing how quickly it will. It will start to build and then you own that information you own those email addresses.

[01:00:31] Those people have then taken that step to actually, you know to engage with you so they're already passed a qualifier they're already interested in in some in what you're doing or something that you're offering.

[01:00:42] So you know that both of them should be relatively easy then you want to make sure that you're not spamming and all of those sorts of things but you know I can't stress enough the value of building your own database and talking and speaking to them and value adding to them as well.

[01:00:58] I guess the other thing would be making sure that if you whether you go externally or internally with a marketing agency or a marketer managing your program.

[01:01:08] Work with somebody who understands or can at least really quickly upskill to to understand things like ita and you know the technology safeguards agreement and all of those sorts of things that I guess a little hurdles for companies that might not specialize in space

[01:01:24] and look for a marketing agency that has sort of high tech customers other high tech customers or space customers that would be fabulous to or if you're hiring somebody who has got some sort of tech background but can also do that marketing aspect as well.

[01:01:39] I tar is a regulations on who can work with certain companies and get grants.

[01:01:46] So definitely do look into ita and I'm going to put a link to ita regulations and that you can learn a little bit more about them because you could actually put yourself out of the running for a particular grant or monies because you don't have the right people on staff.

[01:02:06] It can be something as simple as that and or as complicated as you know it is a complicated matter so yeah it is not an ISR expert but and neither am I but I understand what it is and I think that helps in conversations when I'm you know we're talking about something

[01:02:27] I'm like well we can communicate about that but there's considerations that need to be given to various aspects particularly if you're a space company dealing with any defense work as well you want to make sure that you're dotting your eyes and you're crossing your teeth because as you say you can spend all these resources going down a path and then realize whoops we actually don't qualify.

[01:02:47] Yes for something simple for something simple that you could have changed a year ago and so definitely do be aware of it so that you can can abide by those regulations wonderful thank you so much for meeting with us today and we look forward to seeing what he laid does.

[01:03:12] My pleasure is it's been fabulous I love talking about marketing so you know I couldn't go on for another hour.

[01:03:19] A special thanks to Amanda Hudswell head of marketing communications and public affairs at Equatorial Launch Australia for sharing her journey to space be sure to check out her links listed in today's show notes.

[01:03:35] Please like and subscribe to the space marketing podcast to help get the word out about this incredible industry of space.

[01:03:43] I hope that you have found this podcast useful for your journey as you reach for the stars.