Business of Space with UAH

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Space Marketing Podcast, where we look at marketing principles, strategies, and tactics through the lens of space. Hi, I am proud to have this particular episode sponsored by the University of Alabama Huntsville and their event, the Business of Space Conference, in February 23rd through the 25th. Meet me there.

[00:00:25] The Business of Space Conference 2025 is your chance to connect with researchers and industry leaders shaping the new space economy. Held February 23rd through the 25th at the University of Alabama Huntsville in Huntsville, Alabama, also known as Rocket City, this year's theme is creating solutions with partnership opportunities and barriers.

[00:00:53] They are highlighting collaboration to address challenges and unlock opportunities in the commercial space industry. Don't miss this unique opportunity to drive innovation and shape future policies. Early bird rates end on January 24th. And learn more at opce.uah.edu backslash business of space.

[00:01:21] Today, we are going to talk with Dr. Jason Green and Dr. Hank Aylwin, University of Alabama Huntsville, all about the business of space. So lift off in three, two, one. Welcome to the Space Marketing Podcast.

[00:01:51] Information relating to our discussion today and links to the video version can be found in the episode show notes on spacemarketingpodcast.com. Please like and subscribe to the podcast. It will help more people reach beyond the atmosphere. Information in this episode is for entertainment and information only. Please consult a professional for your specific situation.

[00:02:18] Today, I am honored to have two people who are making impact in their community and in the space industry. Dr. Green and Dr. Aylwin from the University of Alabama in Huntsville are here today. And these are two visionaries behind the University of Alabama's Business of Space Conference, which is happening in February 23rd through the 25th, and is also a sponsor of this episode.

[00:02:47] I have the privilege of being one of their speakers. Dr. Jason Green, the Dean of the College of Business at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, has an outstanding academic background, holding multiple advanced degrees and having served in prestigious faculties roles at several other renowned universities.

[00:03:11] He brings a wealth of business experience to his position from the world of investment management. As a part of the executive management team at InTech Investment Management, he helped oversee approximately $50 billion in assets from major public and corporate pension plans worldwide.

[00:03:34] With extensive consulting experience, his insights connect academic excellence with real-world application, making him a leader in both business education and financial strategy. He is dedicated to connecting students, organizations, and communities, while inspiring everyone to reach for the stars.

[00:04:01] Our co-guest is Dr. Hank Eliwan, and he is an associate professor of accounting at the University of Alabama in Huntsville as well, and is a true pioneer in space accounting. Dr. Eliwan has been leading the charge in his groundbreaking area since 2020,

[00:04:21] when he first published an article highlighting how robust financial frameworks can underpin the success of expanding space industries. With nine published works on space accounting and a pioneering course at UAH, he is helping to define the financial foundation of the final frontier.

[00:04:45] With his award-winning teaching, research on decision-making in environmental accounting, and real-world experience as an auditor, Dr. Eliwan connects the dots between accounting, management, and strategic growth. But here is where it gets exciting for marketers. Accounting just doesn't keep the books. It provides the data and the insights that fuel marketing strategies.

[00:05:13] Just like the famous line in the famous movie, show me the money, investors, politicians, and communities need to see financial opportunities to get behind a movement that helps cement their belief and their trust. So welcome, gentlemen, to the podcast. Well, thank you. It's great to be here. Great to have you here. But before we begin,

[00:05:42] I got to tell you that we all have something in common, and that is Kentucky. Okay. I am working on initiatives to bring space to Kentucky with my Space for Kentucky initiative and a spaceport. And I live in Kentucky. And Dr. Green, you're from Kentucky. That's right. And Dr. Eliwan, you went to the University of Kentucky. So you have roots here. Yeah, that's great.

[00:06:12] We all share that. Bluegrass State is great, and I'm glad to see that they're working on space as well. Oh, I've dedicated my whole entire being to making sure that they do see space. That's right. Kentucky and states like Kentucky. Yeah. And areas, you know, Ecuador and other countries. So I believe that space is one of those things that can inspire people to think differently about their lives,

[00:06:41] their education, and their pursuits. Agreed. I am excited to have this conversation. Space, marketing, business, community development, and workforce development are all passions that I have, and they're the reason why I do what I do. Why don't you tell me how you are also beacons for this vision?

[00:07:09] My initial interest in space, if I'm going to be really honest, was Star Trek. And watching Deep Space Nine and the Next Generation in the 90s. And then a few years ago, Dr. Green helped to establish a strategic objective here at the College of Business here at UAH for us to become thought leaders in space commerce.

[00:07:36] And I decided to look into the possibilities of making a pivot in my research to try and help meet that strategic objective. And it just sounded really interesting and even fun, maybe. And so I did some homework. And I found out that in accounting, which is where my research, the discipline that I do my research in,

[00:08:00] there was nothing out there from a space perspective with respect to the literature. Of course, there would be the occasional tax article that you could find. And there's a lot of accounting-related documents out there, such as the budget information for NASA. But from an academic perspective, there was no systematic organized study of the accounting issues in the space sector.

[00:08:29] And so I thought to myself, challenge accepted. And I set out to write the first academic piece on the accounting perspective of the space sector and how to advance it. And what are some of the opportunities and challenges that the accounting profession will face as we advance this new space economy?

[00:08:53] I developed over 50 questions from the accounting perspective that many of which could be answered right now. We don't need to wait 15 or 20 years to start thinking about some of these issues. And the sooner that the accounting profession and the accounting academy can look into these questions, many of which are conceptual in nature, then the easier path we can have forward in helping to advance the space economy.

[00:09:22] This is one of the horns that I toot, is that telling youth and even adults, you know, space is for everyone. If you love accounting, there's a place for you. If you love marketing, there's a place for you. Space is literally for everyone in every discipline. Yeah, I absolutely agree. And I'm going to pick up on where Dr. Ailine sort of hit on a couple of things. And you as well, Izzy.

[00:09:50] I think back it was probably six or seven years ago now, our faculty, we were working on a new strategic plan. And we live in Rocket City, right? I mean, I pass literally the Saturn V rocket that, you know, sits at the edge of a freeway here every morning, you know, and you can see it from our campus. Our university has a rich tradition and involvement in the space industry and space exploration. So this was kind of natural.

[00:10:20] But space commerce was really being talked about early on. This was, again, six, seven years ago. Not commercial space and, you know, some commercial space companies were, you know, still forming and still testing and things like that. And we were starting to hear.

[00:10:42] We actually had some discussions with the FAA and with others, some of our colleagues at NASA about things around commercial space. And so we, you know, as part of our strategic plan, our faculty really had the foresight to say, you know, this is in the DNA of this university. This is something interesting to us. We all live in Rocket City. I think if you polled, you know, probably all of our colleagues, you know, you would have a higher than normal interest, right, in space.

[00:11:11] So Hank's kind of interest and my interest, I consider, my wife and I consider ourselves space geeks. You know, it's just something that we've all followed but hadn't directly worked on at the time. And in fact, we didn't know what, frankly, we were even getting into in the sense of, you know, space commerce and business research in particular in space commerce was non-existent.

[00:11:41] As Dr. Aylalline said, there just were not articles in our domain about that. Research has been going on in space for a very long time. Our engineering faculty, our science faculty here at the university, you know, have been actively doing this for decades.

[00:12:00] But one thing that we knew at the time was that as commercial space developed and as businesses started playing a larger role and as the vision of at the time of NASA of handing off some of the low Earth orbit activities to commercial companies and trying to spend their money further out in space exploration,

[00:12:23] we knew there would be business problems to solve that would be unique to this new context, really. I'm not going to make a lofty claim that we anticipated there would be new theories of business or finance or marketing, but certainly a new context where there would be questions that needed to be answered.

[00:12:45] And as Dr. Aylalline said, and he was one of the first, I want to really point out that Dr. Aylalline was one of the first, certainly among our faculty, but I think really the first in the world to start rigorously framing some of the challenges and business problems and questions that needed to be confronted as commercial space developed.

[00:13:08] And that was really our aim was to set out on this path, not really knowing what would come of it, but knowing there would be questions to answer. And there's this famous quote, I think it's usually attributed to Einstein that said, hey, if we knew what the answers were, we wouldn't call it research. And this is, you know, what we do at an academic institution that is research focused. We have very capable faculty who do a lot of deep thinking about important questions.

[00:13:36] And, you know, we just set this out as, okay, we'll mark this as a strategic initiative. And I think I remember having conversations at the time that, you know, we thought, well, five years from now, we'll either have nothing or maybe this will be something. And it's been, fortunately, I think the latter, thanks to the leadership of Dr. Aylalline in particular, but others on our faculty as well.

[00:14:02] And then there are others throughout the world who are now starting really to confront some of these really important business questions in the context of space. What doing business in space or around space? And let's be very clear, as far as I know, no one is exchanging currency in space right now. No.

[00:14:25] But, you know, the business of space is something that is, again, a unique context that merits rigorous research just as much as the research I used to do on financial markets and different kinds of financial instruments. So it's a really exciting time.

[00:14:42] And it's very natural for the University of Alabama in Huntsville and our faculty to be thought leaders in this area because we've had at this university a tradition of decades of thought leaders in that way. When I decided that I wanted space to be my career, it was at the Kennedy Space Center and it was at the Atlantis exhibit. And I hope you've had a chance to go there, but it's really quite a moment.

[00:15:10] And it was an epiphany that I said, I could combine both of my passions, my space and my marketing. And when I got back, and this is in 2018, this is not that long ago. I looked and there was nothing. And then so I started trying to figure out why there was nothing. The space industry is not new.

[00:15:34] What I found is that a lot of the space industry up until about 2015 with the Commercial Space Act, they had a grant. They didn't really have to worry about marketing. They didn't really have to worry about business. They had somebody that was just, you know, they had to worry about how to do grants. And but all the other business type of things, that was not top of mind.

[00:16:01] And it wasn't something where they needed to make money with what they were doing. And since the commercial space has really started to come on board in the last 10 years, you know, making money is an important part of the space industry now. And the business of space is really kind of new. So that's right. In fact, I think we viewed that.

[00:16:26] And again, our faculty really embraced this as we were developing the plan to to stake this out as a strategic priority for the College of Business here. We viewed that as a potential role that we could play in helping our community, because as you as you really very nicely said, that there is a shift to where companies in particular who had been doing. Companies have been involved in space since its beginning.

[00:16:55] There have been mostly in a government contracting, a traditional, I'll say traditional government contracting role in working in a in a different way of contracting, working in a commercial venture where there's competition and things like profit matter. This is something that, again, certainly is in our wheelhouse as business faculty, right, as business school.

[00:17:24] But it's also something that, you know, is important to the is this is this economy, the space industry and space economy of all. So our goal here is to really be a resource for our community in particular, that has always had a great tradition again in space and space exploration and to advance knowledge and practice in this area.

[00:17:50] And because our planet is getting smaller by the week, your community is quite large. That's right. That's right. And we we recognize that. So I use community in the way you just did, right? We're talking community can mean a lot of different things. And in this case, you know, we have there are literally partners all over Earth. Who who would be part of this community? There's this local aspect of it, too.

[00:18:18] And as you said, there are if you're interested in medicine, if you're interested in marketing, if you're interested in supply chain, certainly. All of those things have a space element to them. And that community thing, you know, is definitely broadened. It definitely is. And 2020 made it smaller. And that's where I really got into creating a network online like what we're doing right now. I mean, I'm in Kentucky.

[00:18:47] You're in in Alabama and we're having a conversation like we're in the same room. So the world is a lot smaller. That's right. Yeah. And my main research partner in space accounting, he works at the University of South Australia. So we have conversations every other week and we're zooming nighttime for me, midday for him. And he's in Adelaide. Hold on to your boosters.

[00:19:11] We will be right back with Dr. Jason Green and Dr. Hank Alwine from the University of Alabama Huntsville after the briefest message from our sponsors. Please like and subscribe to the Space Marketing Podcast so you don't miss a thing. And speaking of sponsors, today's episode is sponsored by the University of Alabama Huntsville, the Business of Space Conference happening on February 23rd through the 25th.

[00:19:41] The Business of Space Conference is your chance to connect with space industry leaders and researchers shaping the future of the new space economy. Hosted by the College of Business at the University of Alabama Huntsville, this event will take place on campus in Huntsville, Alabama, also known as Rocket City on February 23rd through the 25th.

[00:20:05] This year's theme is creating solutions with partnerships, opportunities and barriers. And it focuses on collaboration in order to tackle challenges and unlock opportunities. Hear from distinguished speakers in the industry and academia, including keynote speakers like Kevin Engelbert, manager of the space production applications portfolio at NASA's Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center.

[00:20:34] Don't miss this unique opportunity to drive innovation and shape future policies. Early bird rates end January 24th. And special discounts are available for federal employees and National Space Club members. Registration closes on February 17th.

[00:20:55] Learn more at opce.uah.edu backslash business of space. And I'll see you there.

[00:21:09] Tell us a little bit about the University of Alabama Huntsville and the College of Business in Huntsville. What it is that you focus on?

[00:21:34] The University of Alabama in Huntsville actually can map its roots as a university to the moonshot, to the space industry. We were, I think, quite literally founded by Warner Von Braun, who was brought to Huntsville, Alabama with the purpose of developing a space program for the U.S. government, for the United States.

[00:21:57] And he went to the legislature and said to them, if we're going to do this, if we're going to get to the moon, we will need not just an educated workforce engineers, but we will need an industry here who knows how to support such a challenging, really, you know, idea as doing this.

[00:22:20] And plus, it's going to take a lot of smart people and smart people really like education, you know, want to expand knowledge in all kinds of areas, in the arts, in business, and we'll need teachers. So the University of Alabama was founded then. We, this year, are celebrating our 55th anniversary as an autonomous university. It started out as an extension of the University of Alabama.

[00:22:46] We are still a part of the University of Alabama system, which is why, of course, that's in our name. But we are now a comprehensive university with colleges and nursing, education, science, arts, humanities, and social sciences, business, and, of course, engineering. And the university plays an important role in this community. It really is the University of Alabama in Huntsville. It's really Huntsville's university.

[00:23:11] Our business school then, we're a little unique among business schools throughout the United States in that our programs are really focused on supporting the kind of work that's done here in Huntsville. You see a little more technology focus. So our history here, our tradition in the business school has been management of technology. Innovation is part of that.

[00:23:37] We have master's degrees in information systems, cybersecurity, supply chain management, human resource management, analytics, and then undergraduate majors across those fields with the traditional marketing, finance as well, and accounting, which all go to support the thriving economy here in the Huntsville area. That is still, to this day, heavily driven by what goes on, in this case, on Redstone Arsenal,

[00:24:04] a lot of which, both on the civil and defense side, is driven by activities in space. And you know, you're not a space company unless you have an office in Huntsville. That's right. And there's a good reason for that. I mean, this is Rocket City. And, you know, we're very proud of that. And, you know, this is a different community. Having lived in many places throughout the United States, I've traveled the world,

[00:24:30] Huntsville really is a special place for the innovation that goes on here. We're not afraid of hard challenges, you know, getting to the moon. I mean, we've, you know, we've done that, right? We're on our way to doing it again. A lot of smart people here who enjoy those types of challenges and take a lot of pride in being a smart place, being, you know, being dedicated to quality education.

[00:24:56] That's what we really feel, in some ways, the great opportunity and the great honor to do that on behalf of our community here at the university. So you have a lot to be proud of. So, and I am very excited to be coming there in February. And do you want to tell us a little bit about this event and why you did it? It is the business of space. Yeah.

[00:25:22] So this will be the second year that we have hosted this, developed and hosted this conference. With the idea being that there's a lot of space conferences out there, but I'm not aware of any that puts such a focus on the economics of space or the business of space in general. And so, especially when you look at it from the academic perspective that we've discussed earlier, there's just not a lot of research out there dedicated to space only.

[00:25:48] With the exception of economics, they've done a good job over the years. But the other disciplines, to be honest, either have just started or it still doesn't exist yet amongst the business disciplines. So we thought, well, why not bridge this gap between the academy and the industrial aspects of the sector, the practitioners,

[00:26:08] to try and show perhaps what are the opportunities that we as academics can provide to the stakeholders of the space sector to help them do what they need to accomplish to help advance the new space economy. And so that's the premise of our conference. And this year, the theme is, the theme we created was creating solutions with partnerships, opportunities, and barriers. The idea, and we're using the term partnership very broadly.

[00:26:36] We want to hear from all kinds of different perspectives. That's why you're coming down to talk about the marketing elements of the space sector. We're going to have a speaker talking about finance. We have one talking about international relations. So all kinds of dynamics to consider. And every one of these dynamics that can be used for the stakeholders out there who are doing the work to advance the new space economy,

[00:27:02] how can they interact with these different elements, these different business elements to help their businesses succeed? And with these different dynamics, there are different opportunities and barriers. And so we want our speakers to explore those options, those factors for the folks in the audience to consider. One great thing about the attendees of last year's conference is that, sure, we had a bunch of academic presentations,

[00:27:30] but we had a very heavy practitioner audience that was listening to these presentations. And the Q&A sessions after each presentation was really impressive. I've been to conferences where the dialogue is just not there after the presentations take place. But there was a lot of great back and forth between practitioners and academics who were presenting. Now, this year we have more of a combination of speakers who not only are from the academic world, but also practitioners.

[00:27:59] And so I personally, I really look forward to seeing how these different perspectives are going to be used in the conversations and all the different varieties of engagement that we can have with these different subjects. And yeah, the conference will be in February 23rd through 25th. We'll start kicking off on that Sunday to 23rd with a reception. And then we'll have two days of speakers from all different angles. We'll host the reception at the Embassy Suites here in Huntsville.

[00:28:27] And then we'll have the conference sessions here on the campus of UAH and the Student Services Building. And then on the last day of the conference, the afternoon of that Tuesday, we'll go take a tour at United Launch Alliance, which has a facility here in the Huntsville area. So it'll be a lot of fun. The things about space that I really love is that we can't get there by ourselves. So partnership is a very key idea about getting there.

[00:28:56] We have to have partnerships in order to do something this hard. And so that I think is something that's unique in this industry. And also, too, as far as like a little marketing lesson is that, you know, mama always told you, you are who you hang around. So partnership is definitely a reflection on your brand as well. So just a little marketing type of thing in there.

[00:29:23] One of the things is that the space industry has grown, like amazingly grown. And the latest forecast that we have is $1.8 trillion in the next 10 years. And with this rapid expansion of the space economy and its potential to transform almost every industry.

[00:29:48] And let me tell you, the next four years, when we come out of the next four years, it won't look the same as it does right now. You know, there's a lot of things that we don't see coming that make a big difference, like the Internet and things like that did through our lives have changed everything. And so I think that we're getting ready to see another pivotal change that we just don't see coming.

[00:30:17] And we'll talk a little bit more about that in a minute. Where do you see the untapped opportunities in the space industry and how could they redefine global economies in the next decade? Yeah, so the accounting profession has actually looked into this. They sink a lot of money into advising and consulting stakeholders in the space sector.

[00:30:42] And it's important for those who pay no attention to the accounting profession. I recognize that's an awful lot of people. It's important to see where the major accounting firms put their resources, because that gives you great insight into where the economy is heading. And they have thrown a lot of resources into better understanding the space sector.

[00:31:02] So when they figure out where they think the space sector is going, they've got their own incentives to really lead the space sector in that direction, because they have a lot of skin in the game whenever they provide these consulting services. So what do they come up with? So in about the next 10 years, they see satellite demand being stable and helping to help advance the launch service providers.

[00:31:31] They think space tourism will advance, but they still would call it a niche market. They're not ready to claim that it's just going to be the next hub. We'll go out of Atlanta and just go up to the moon for the day. They believe R&D and manufacturing will make incremental progress. There's a little bit of a difference. Some firms don't think it's going to make major advances. Some firms are a little more bullish on the 10-year advancement of manufacturing in space.

[00:32:00] General launch costs will continue to fall, which I know we'll probably discuss later how important that will be. There are predictions on better progress with water mining on the moon. The increasing pervasiveness of Earth-based industries into the space sector, which the more that can happen, the more intertwined we can have these non-space industries interact with the space sector. That's only a good thing for the advancement of the new space economy.

[00:32:28] The lunar transportation market is predicted to advance. They continue to predict the increasing shift towards commercial entities towards these space activities. So there's a lot to play for in the next 10 years. There is. And like I said, there's a lot we don't see coming. So Dr. Green, what would be your take on this? Sure.

[00:32:56] I think as Dr. Aylan said, a key barrier here is the cost of access, right? And then coming down, what I think the next real breakthrough will be when there are, be it water, be it other resources that space provides that are unique

[00:33:17] and that solve some problems like having, you know, living in space and operating in space for longer periods of time, right? Having a presence in space, be that a lunar base or something like that, or be it just, again, labs in space. I think a breakthrough that would make that, make the cost of that, but also just the feasibility of that better.

[00:33:46] I think that's something that I believe will come. I'm not predicting where it will come, right? What that will be. But I think the increased, you know, numbers, the increased missions, the increased exploration will create really discoveries that, that again, we can't really predict that we, we expect will happen. We just don't know what form they will take.

[00:34:10] So to me, that's what I'm excited about is to see those advances and, and to see that, you know, space, the other aspect of it is what space and more companies are doing this. Again, as Dr. Ailwine said, as more companies participate in space and, and we're seeing these companies doing that

[00:34:33] from say medical research to agriculture, to, you know, manufacturing of things that by the way, may be brought back to earth, where there are markets, where there are, you know, where there is an economy and those products can solve problems. Maybe it's again in the medical field, maybe it's in advanced materials, where those can, can come back to earth and have a transformational effect

[00:35:02] in a, in an area of the current economy where we're not talking about building it, you know, building a market. There's already a market for something. That's where I also see advances that 10 years from now, again, I don't know where that will be, but we'll look back and say, hey, this was not here 10 years ago. And I think that those are going to be areas that, that have that sort of, in essence, an application of space to, to, to, to markets on, on earth. In my day job, I work for the Global Space Port Alliance.

[00:35:32] And I, I help space ports get all over the world. And one of the things that I see coming are, is the return cargo missions. And when we say 10 years, 10 years is nothing for space. That's like tomorrow in space. So that's really a quick turnaround. I see that return market really impacting the area where they come in.

[00:35:59] And, and that's kind of my take for Kentucky is that, you know, we're able to catch things like the dream catcher that have been launched and bringing back goods. And then we can put them on a barge and send them down the river so that it can be launched again. One of the things about Kentucky is we have a company called Space Tango and they are doing artificial retinas in the International Space Station right now that will give people with macular degeneration eyesight.

[00:36:29] I mean, the studies that have gone on just with the ISS has just, it has changed our world in ways we don't know. And one of the things that you said, Dr. Eowon, is that, you know, it was about companies getting involved in space. Well, whether companies know it or not, they're all space companies. They just don't realize that that's where some of their data and their research are coming from.

[00:36:58] Right. Yeah. And that, the word information is probably the best way to describe accounting in general. Accounting is about information that's used to establish accountability. And information comes in a wide variety of quality. It will, it has certainly become more valuable in the last few years. It will become even more valuable in the next decade or so.

[00:37:27] And from many different perspectives, the, well, we're going to see advances of information from, from many different perspectives. The amount of information, the diversity of information that might be required to successfully run these space businesses. The speed of information. How fast can we actually collect the information and process it in a meaningful manner? And then the accuracy of the information that we might need. There's a real challenge in the space sector with space, with information quality.

[00:37:56] We, we have, we can have a lot of information, but the ability to filter out what is relevant to particular decisions is a major challenge. That's a challenge in all business sectors, but especially space at this current moment in time. So what are some of the solutions? Well, you know, we've heard the buzzword artificial intelligence out there. And space companies are going to have to really get on board with AI.

[00:38:20] There will be a lot of cloud computing used, 5G infrastructures, machine learning. That's just, we're going to have to become better, better utilizers of information in order to make more effective business decisions going forward.

[00:38:38] For example, out in space, the notion of in situ resource utilization, the use of resources from celestial bodies, wherever they're located, is going to be very important to advance the new space economy. Because we can't just rely on everything on Earth and then send it up to space. That's really expensive. That's cost prohibitive.

[00:38:58] So a lot of the accounting firms out there that are playing in the space sector, they believe that capturing and transmitting lunar data is only going to rise in value to help companies more effectively plan for this in situ resource utilization development on the lunar surface. That particular technology comes back down here. One of the quotes I have, and to those rocket engineers out there, I know that it's not gasoline, okay?

[00:39:27] But last time I checked, there was no dinosaurs on the moon. So the way we get around right now isn't going to work up there. But the technology that we develop to be able to do things in situ will help our planet down here. That is one of the things I am most excited about is what it will do for us and what it already has done for us. And the data, I mean, we have oodles of data. We just don't know how to sift it.

[00:39:57] It's like having sand. You know, we just have to learn what to do with it. All right. I love this next question because it is where numbers can paint a picture that inspires growth in the industry. So good marketing inspires trust and numbers play a huge part in building that trust.

[00:40:18] How can space organizations use real world data to prove that space exploration is not just science fiction, but a vital economic driver? I'll build on the lunar data example. That would be an example of some numbers being used to help advance the lunar development.

[00:40:40] But similar to, Izzy, what you were alluding to, you've got information that can be used for activities in space that the end user is in space eventually once we can establish a presence on the moon. But currently, a lot of the information we gather in space is brought back to Earth and used in the various industries on Earth. So where this could really play out is satellite usage to collect and transmit data.

[00:41:09] And where we could see this on Earth in particular, where we otherwise would not have this data to be able to advance strategic objectives on Earth would be in what they call ESG measures, environmental, social and governance measures. So that's a real challenge in the accounting profession, because a lot of firms nowadays, even currently, usually process this information manually.

[00:41:33] And so to be able to advance the processing of this type of information coming in from the satellite data and being able to make heads or tails of it in a way that makes sense and for us to make better decisions here on Earth, that's actually a real challenge currently that we're having to grapple with.

[00:41:50] But the space technology that's there to be able to collect information to help us, for example, perhaps there's farmland in Australia that they need a better idea of drought patterns or soil, that the health of soil. They can use satellite data, satellite imagery, help to look at the measurements involved to understand how the farmers can make better decisions.

[00:42:16] So there's all kinds of terrestrial sectors that can benefit from the collection of data out in space and bring it down here and figure out how to collate it in a way that's going to make sense. It's a heck of a business case. You're showing the value proposition of satellite development, technology development out there in orbit to help gather the data that's necessary to make decisions back here at home. This has been true since the satellites first went up there.

[00:42:43] You know, it hasn't been very long that the satellites have been up there. I think 1962 is when we had the first weather satellites. And we were able to see the holes in the ozone because of these satellites. We were able to change legislation in order to help heal them. And now they're getting smaller. You know, we've been using satellite data to help our planet for a very long time.

[00:43:11] And, but it's not really, it's still, you know, 1962. Before that, we didn't know what was going on up there. And that particular technology is only getting more and more fine-tuned. I'm excited to see what that's going to do. The next question is, what do you think is the single most impactful innovation shaping the commercial space economy today? This one, this one's a little bit closer to my home because it involves a little bit of accounting.

[00:43:41] I'm going to build on something that Jason mentioned earlier about the cost of entry into the space sector. And so basically what might be the biggest bottleneck to help advance the new space economy? And I would suggest, many others have suggested this. This is not an original creation of mine, but getting reusable rockets developed to the point that they become sustainable.

[00:44:06] This has a major impact on launch cost and the ability to reduce them, which we have a lot of smaller companies that might have this great idea, this great product or service that would use space, but they can't afford the launch cost to get that product or that process up in space to be able to make it a viable, have viable financial stability for their company.

[00:44:33] So if we can reduce these launch costs, that would be a great way to open up the new space economy wide open. So for example, SpaceX's Falcon 9, the Block 5 version, we have, there's estimates that the cost of a launch is about 30 million. And Elon Musk is on the record saying that the boosters represent about 60% of the flight cost.

[00:44:58] So that's a lot of opportunity to reduce cost if you can reuse those boosters. And in 2018, their goal was to use their boosters for about 10 flights. And then they found that they can actually go for longer than 10 flights. The useful life is actually longer. So they extended it to 15 flights. Usually this is for non-human travel.

[00:45:24] You can only use the flights on the front end for human use. And then you can't put humans on them anymore. We want to keep those people safe. That's right. That's right. We have to have those considerations. We want the space center to stay here for a long time. And now they're considering extending some of the boosters to 20 flights. Again, this is after inspections and tests and stress tests and making sure that everything's okay.

[00:45:48] So this could have, from the accounting perspective, the more flights you have for these reusable boosters, the lower the overhead cost you incur for each of your flights. And so this is a major opportunity to, you know, the companies, there's a couple of things they can do here. They could increase their profit margins by reducing their costs. Reducing costs for a company is just as good as raising the price of whatever product or service that they're offering.

[00:46:14] Or they could just choose to lower their sales price, and that would give them the opportunity to grab more market share, given supply and demand dynamics. Lowering your price is usually not traditionally the best goal because a lot of companies, you know, the Walmarts of the world, that's a good way to go under. But for space, you know, we're not playing the normal business game.

[00:46:41] And there's a lot of other vehicles besides just the Falcon that are coming online. Dawn Aerospace has a vehicle that can go up to space, and there's a lot of space planes that are in development too that hopefully will help also lower the cost for LEO, at least LEO. Yeah, a lot will depend on dynamics on competition. Yes, competition's good. Yes. Yeah, competition's great.

[00:47:08] And the more competition you have, the less control you have over your price, assuming quality is the same. And that could lead to price pressures for them to be forced to lower their prices in order to remain competitive in the market, as long as there's sufficient supply of the launch services. It's also a competition is a good thing for making the quality better as well. Yes.

[00:47:31] As long as the consumer demands it, then there's an opportunity for companies to meet the consumer needs. So I was going to take a similar view as Dr. Eilwein on innovations that I think are really transforming kind of what we do and build on something that we've already talked about, which is how people on Earth use information mainly, but communication in some cases, you know, from space.

[00:47:59] And that is, as just technology advances in very, in some ways, mundane ways with, you know, the ability to pack a lot of technology into smaller spaces. You know, we have the advent of microsats and things like that. So we can, as long as we're not talking about humans, right. In space, which it's hard to miniaturize us, right.

[00:48:27] You know, because that, that we're kind of fixed in terms of the gains. We really need that launch cost. And if we think about it in terms of price per pound, right. To get to space. So there are two sides of that. If, if the price per pound stays the same, but we reduce the, the weight, the mass of what we have to get up there to be able to do the same kinds of activities. Then again, we've opened up and we've seen this, right. This is again, not new.

[00:48:55] We, we see this playing out with constellations of, of, you know, microsats. But that is now, we're also talking about changing the world because we're making information data and the applications of which can be transformational available in places on earth that otherwise, you know, are not, don't enjoy the type of technological access that say we do in the United States.

[00:49:24] You know, to me that that's transforming, I think that's the, the business side of having this transformational impact on humanity that, that excites, you know, is one of those exciting things about, about space in the way that that can, can affect things. And, you know, it's something that's not discussed a lot because it happens so slowly.

[00:49:46] And of course it's out of our sight of what this magic happens, you know, with these beams that we're able to communicate all over the world. But like, for example, in Mexico, in the United States, when we developed the telephone, you know, we built all these telephone lines across the world and, but in places like Mexico, they went straight to the cell phone. Right. So they didn't have to go there. There are places in remote areas that all of a sudden have access to education. Right.

[00:50:16] Through Starlink. That's going to be a game changer, you know, when all the world is connected in that way. What role should private companies play in shaping space policy and ensuring ethical practices in this new frontier, which is near and dear to my heart? I don't want to take the junk that we have down here up there. And so I think that's going to be a real challenge. So go ahead. Dr. Edelwan, you want to start that off? Yeah.

[00:50:46] So my short answer is a major role. I personally would recognize and we have a history with NASA. We've got a lot of lessons that we've learned. You know, so we're not starting from scratch. The space sector is really fraught with danger. That's been proven time and again. But as a result of that, the private companies, they have massive resources at stake. And the mission failure. And the failure.

[00:51:13] If it was one were to take place that involved, especially one that would involve a loss of life, it would be catastrophic for both the company and the entire space sector. This is not a situation where it would just kind of get the failure would get just charged to the company. It would become a burden for the entire space sector. If it was determined that companies did not take health and safety issues seriously.

[00:51:35] So I don't see the private companies just going wild with, you know, trying to achieve their strategic objectives. I think they have a very good understanding of this. So I do think there's a fine line between too much regulation that stifles economic development and too little regulation that could lead to behavior that society deems to be undesirable. So I think we've got a great starting point with what NASA has learned over the decades.

[00:52:05] I wouldn't personally go in too heavy. And I think the insight that private companies can bring to the table to say, hey, what can these regulations and policies look like that would make it viable for us to achieve our strategic objectives, but also take care of the needs of society and what they wish to see happen to the companies that operate within their countries. The Artemis Accords is a very good example of that.

[00:52:31] It basically is a very short document that says this is how we all should behave. And that's just taking care of each one another and don't leave people stranded.

[00:52:43] And this is a good reason why partnership is so important is because if you're doing it by yourself, well, you don't have any checks and balances, but by having intertwined partnerships, it kind of helps keep people behaving themselves a little bit. So Dr. Green, did you want to answer that? So I think that Dr. Elwine brought up the R word, right? Regulation.

[00:53:10] I think of a policy and I think this is a great example. And I've seen it, the industry that I come out of in terms of the financial industry. Regulation, but I'll think of it more generally as policy can help actually be a coordinating mechanism too, where stakeholders with shared interest, which is what we have in space. As Dr. Elwine very eloquently put it, right? We all have this shared interest. These companies have this shared interest in things.

[00:53:39] So policy can actually be a great way to help coordinate the companies. And I agree that the companies have to be very actively involved in shaping that policy. But that's where I think where the regulators, in essence, where governments and government agencies can really play an important role in terms of being that focus then to help with that coordination.

[00:54:06] So there's a tendency in some areas to have a knee-jerk reaction to regulation. But there's also this, I think, a more measured response of thinking about it as actually helping coordinate where, again, there are these shared interests and shared benefits to having very clear understandings and rules of, well, we can't say rules of the road. But, you know, rules of space, right?

[00:54:34] Rules of engagement, at least, you know, to help really for the benefit of everyone, right? It's better for us if we just know what we can expect from the others, the other actors and the other participants in this market. Yeah. And here's how to be nice. Here's how to play nice. Yes. When you're in the space industry, like we are, is everything I think about because there's so much that's just so interesting. I mean, I think about it when I wake up.

[00:55:04] I think about it when I go to bed. But there's a lot of people outside the bubble that are not as informed about how space is intertwined in our lives. And it can really impact every aspect of the community. It can drum up support for an initiative or it can kill one. It can inspire dreams. It can change how students see going to school.

[00:55:29] You know, if you're excited about space, all of a sudden science is a different creature when you're going to school. I think that is very important. And it's up to us in the industry to share the promising vision of what the world could be. So the next question is, what is the best example of a business in the space industry leveraging local communities to build both innovation and support?

[00:55:58] So I'm going to use a local example here in the Huntsville area involving the recently announced nominee for NASA administrator, Jared Isaacman. So he's the founder of Draken International, which helps out at adversary training involving the NATO Air Forces, so different countries within the NATO umbrella. He's also the founder of a payment processing company, Shifor Payments.

[00:56:24] So he's very successful from the business perspective, and he has always had this interest in space, which is good since he just got nominated to be the administrator for NASA. But he really has, over the years, put his money where his mouth is and where his interests are.

[00:56:40] And he's taken that business success to donate locally $10 million back in 2022 to the U.S. Space and Rocket Center, which is the facilities that host our space camp that we have here in Huntsville. And so he made a major donation to help provide a new space camp facility that I think is going to be about 40,000 square feet for the building.

[00:57:04] So a major, and this goes into the framing of your question, how can we inspire young kids to consider space options as they grow up and they go to school and they learn about things? Granted, we've got a competitive advantage here in Huntsville because everything's space related to begin with. But to have that type of business support really taking the earnings of part of their success involving space matters and then rechanneling those funds back into the education system.

[00:57:34] It's a win-win, right? You get all these younger kids who are just interested and excited for space initiatives. And also you provide the employees that one day will go back and feed into the system to produce hopefully some advances in the space sector. You know, the thing is, is that even if your company is kind of on a shoestring, encourage your employees to go out and talk to the students about some of the cool things that you're seeing and you're doing.

[00:58:00] And, you know, an hour of your day could change an entire career for those ears that are listening. It also makes your company look better too, you know, as far as branding is concerned. I talked a little bit about the forecast of the $1.8 trillion. And why is now the perfect time for entrepreneurs to invest in the space economy? I want to go back on the subject of information.

[00:58:30] The satellite sector of the space sector is what's driving the space economy at this point. And there's just every indication that demand for information from satellites is only going to grow. So that's where the big investment opportunities are, in addition to other parts of the space sector. But that's the big one right now. The big reason is it permeates to so many other business sectors on Earth.

[00:58:55] If you can get information from the satellites, then you've got a bunch of ripple effects that can impact better information used for more effective decision making. And all the different terrestrial stakeholders we have here on Earth. So now that's probably one of the more relatively safer aspects of investment for the space sector. Of course, we have a wide variety of risk factors in different elements of the space sector to consider.

[00:59:22] And as long as companies have a good diversified portfolio of risk whenever they make their investment decisions, there's a lot of different opportunities for them to consider. But if someone's looking for the first time into what might maybe to invest, if they want to be a little safer than normal, even though it's still risky to go for the space sector, I would recommend the satellite assets. And as in all investments, do your homework.

[00:59:50] You know, don't just, you know, part of it's what you love, but part of it is just being really smart about what you're looking at. And that's where the accounting really comes in as well. Take a look at those numbers and make sure that those numbers are representative of what they should be. So, Dr. Green, did you want to talk about another inspirational company that is doing a lot for space? Well, so I was, yeah, and I was going to take a slightly different kind of approach on it. And again, it's a very local example here.

[01:00:19] In Huntsville, we have Hudson Alpha Institute for Biotechnology, which is a great, a really interesting research organization, but also, in essence, an incubator, an accelerator for biotech-focused companies.

[01:00:35] And they do everything from groundbreaking research and, again, the business side or putting them into practice, things related to genetics, a lot of especially research into how genetics can help with cancer therapies. But also big into, and for good reason because of their location here in Alabama, where agriculture is so big in our state and such an important aspect of our economy.

[01:01:03] They do a lot of research in the area, mainly of genetics, again, with agriculture. And they have research and companies that they're working with that are doing projects on, you know, how do you think about agriculture in a low-G or zero-gravity environment? The insights of which, though, you can bring back to having either higher-yield crops or more robust crops on Earth.

[01:01:31] And so, to me, that's really exciting how research trying to solve a problem of being in an extremely harsh environment, right, in a very different environment, again, low-G, zero-gravity environment, where, you know, if we're going to have people in space, eventually we know we're going to need to have, right, I mean, you don't have to watch the Martian, you know, too long, right, before you figure out you've got to grow something to, you know, sustain, again, human presence.

[01:02:00] So, you know, but trying to solve that problem, and this is where I think, you know, Dr. Ayala and I, being in education, this is at least for us, I think for us, I think he shares this. You know, what's exciting is when you try to solve hard problems, when you try to expand knowledge, you come up with really surprising discoveries, and ones that have applications to, you know, create solutions to improve things in areas that you didn't necessarily set out to do.

[01:02:28] And this is what we view as inspirational about space, even as just a pursuit, right, if we never get there, which we're going to, but if we don't, right, even if we don't get there, we're going to learn a lot that creates a lot of good and, you know, really, really great impact to what we do now, that I think is great.

[01:02:56] So, Izzy, it's kind of, I think you share the spirit too, right? It's that inspiration part. It's the, you know, reaching beyond what is possible now. Yes. And that's exciting because, again, it's bringing back real impacts to everyday life that, you know, they're even now too numerous to count. But the sort of this idea that agriculture and space are somehow related, I think is just surprising, right? We love surprises, you know, as humans.

[01:03:25] We just love those surprising things. So knowing that this group here in Huntsville is, you know, is part of that. And of course, it makes sense, right? Again, we're in Rocket City. They do agriculture, but you got to, if you're in Rocket City, you have to do something related to space. And they have really smart folks over there. Space is such a harsh environment that when you study how the human body reacts, when you study how plants react, you know, if they can survive in space, then we can go to the deserts.

[01:03:54] We can go to the harsh environments of this planet and help not only survive, but thrive. That's right. And we learn a lot about our own ability and our own weaknesses and our own strengths when we go do something hard. It's like you said, it's too numerous to even count how much impact space has on just everyday life.

[01:04:19] And that impact is going to disrupt as well. So when we look into the future, we can kind of guess what things are going to be like. Like we said, sometimes you can't see what things are coming. And there's been a lot of disruptors that have happened throughout our lives in recent history. Not necessarily, you know, I didn't see the automobile happen.

[01:04:44] But what is the most exciting future trend in space exploration that nobody's talking about yet? What do you see? So I'll take a stab at this first. Now, the word exciting is very relative when you're talking to someone who teaches accounting for a living. So I'll preface my response with this.

[01:05:11] So I'm going to focus a little more on asteroid mining. I'm excited about the accounting implications of asteroid mining and specifically the extraction of resources. It brings up a number of accounting issues that are going to need to be resolved in order for companies to feel like they have enough security,

[01:05:36] enough perhaps government backing in order to take the risk that would be necessary for them to have an economically viable business model. So the basic question is, will the extraction of asteroid resources be considered a violation of perhaps the Outer Space Treaty? And how will governments help to provide insight or even regulations?

[01:06:01] So, for example, you alluded to this earlier, Izzy, the U.S. Commercial Space Launch Competitiveness Act of 2015. How are these governments going to incentivize companies to pursue these mining activities? And how will other nations who have signed on to the Outer Space Treaty, how will they react to these various approaches to regulations to help shore up economic confidence for these companies to take these big risks,

[01:06:30] to expend these massive resources, to go out and try to extract these minerals? You know, if a company is not able to call these extractions of minerals, if they're not able to count them as assets for their own business dealings, then there's going to be a hurdle to economic development. So these are things that can really get ironed out before we get to the technological point where we can have businesses go up and really truly try these types of space activities.

[01:06:59] And I really want to stress that with commercial space, money is always an issue. Accounting is always an issue, you know, with any type of initiative that you do. But it's a totally different creature when you're talking about commercial space. You have to have a viable market. You have to have a viable reason to invest.

[01:07:22] And, you know, just doing it just to do it and getting funded by the government to do it, that that particular business model is not something I would bet on right now. And so accounting is is actually very important for this particular next phase of commercial space, I believe. I like to tell my students we're a really big deal. We just don't make the news a lot unless something really bad happens. Then we do make the news.

[01:07:51] But your results do. When you're finished doing and crunching all of the things, your results are what kind of lay the foundation for what the news is. It allows for the economy as we know it to function. Yes, it surely does. So anything you wanted to add to that, Dr. Green? No, I think one of the things that I really appreciate, and this is what I think is exciting about the initiative we have in the business school,

[01:08:21] I think that the new discoveries, the new solutions that really smart people like Dr. A.L. Wein and academics, not just in our college, but throughout the world, as they start doing more research into the business of space. I'm excited about what those breakthroughs will be because, again, we're going to learn as we try to solve hard problems.

[01:08:46] And it's going to enable, really, the emerging space economy. And as you said, this $1.8 trillion, I mean, you don't get there without solving some hard business problems. So excited to see that as this industry matures. 1.8 trillion, just to give a little context on that, that's more than most countries, their value.

[01:09:13] And I think when I looked at it last, it was like 1.4 trillion was the number being thrown around a couple years ago. There were only 15 countries that had a gross national product that was more than that. So most of the countries don't even have that kind of money of what this industry is going to do. Okay. There's a question I always ask everybody, and it's what thoughts do you want to leave our audience with today?

[01:09:42] What do you want them to think about and mull over as they go through their day going, hmm, I never thought of it that way? Accounting is a lot cooler than the average person may think. There's a lot of things we do in accounting that everyone does every day. It's all about information. It's all about making better decisions, whether it's you personally or whether it's someone you're working for or whether you're your own boss.

[01:10:11] And that philosophy will carry over into the space sector to help answer these very difficult problems that are going to come up. And there aren't answers to them. We have to explore an accounting just like the engineers are exploring to help figure out how to get us up into the stars. So if you love accounting out there, space needs you. Come on board. So Dr. Green, what are your final thoughts for today?

[01:10:41] I'm going to break from type here as both a finance person and a business school dean. Okay. So I'm not actually going to talk about business, though, sort of. You know, business is a social science, and it's a social discipline. The thought I would leave you with, and if you've talked to, and again, this is where we have a privilege in living in Rocket City,

[01:11:02] you know, had the privilege of meeting several astronauts who have flown mainly on spatial missions, you know, who are just great down-to-earth folks. And the most common thing that I hear from them, and you hear this in interviews that are published with others who have had the privilege of being in space, is, you know, if you can just do the thought experiment of, you know, you have the opportunity to travel to space,

[01:11:29] and you look back, and you look back at Earth, you see one Earth, right? And we as humans just have that shared home. You know, we call it, you know, you know, our spaceship Earth, this, all these things, right? Literature is filled with these kind of musings.

[01:11:50] But it's, to me, it's powerful in thinking about the social impact as humans start, as we increase the number and the frequency with which humans are spending time in space, and we will gain a different perspective on who we are as the human race. And those borders, those cooperations, those partnerships that we've talked about,

[01:12:18] those, you know, we will figure out how valuable I think those things are to us, and how valuable our shared experience on Earth is. And perhaps, you know, maybe even, you know, how precious certain things, certain things that we enjoy on Earth, right, when you talk about this harsh environment of space. So I would leave with the thought of just going ahead. I think you can do a lot of this experiment, you know, this thought experiment of imagining then, you know,

[01:12:47] what it's like to, as we spend more time in space, thinking about how that changes our perspective as we share this planet. That's where Star Trek really comes into play. When they first came out with those first episodes of Star Trek, they did the older versions of them, not the next generation. Sulu used to talk about how he would go to grocery stores and run into the doors. Because they didn't open.

[01:13:15] We imagined it, and we made it happen. Think about today's youth and what they're going to imagine and what they're going to make happen. Because our jobs didn't exist when we were young. When I was in school, my job did not exist. It's just, I'm so excited for them. Likewise.

[01:13:41] And, you know, Izzy, on that note, we get to spend, Dr. Ailwine and I have the privilege of spending time really educating this next generation of leaders. And these young folks are really, we're going to, you know, we talk about standing on the shoulders of those who come before us. But this generation is going to get us to the next level.

[01:14:04] And I'm grateful to be working with great folks like Dr. Ailwine and others who really are helping develop them and helping educate them and giving them the skills. But this is a great generation who will do amazing things. And if we can foster their innovative spirit and their, you know, inspire them to imagine, you know, things that are different than the way they are right now. I'm excited to see that.

[01:14:27] A special thanks to Dr. Green and Dr. Hank Ailwine, University of Huntsville, Alabama, for sharing their journey to space. Be sure to check out their links listed in today's show notes. Please like and subscribe to the Space Marketing Podcast to help us get the word out about this incredible industry of space.

[01:14:48] Today's episode is sponsored by the University of Alabama Huntsville's The Business of Space Conference on February 23rd through the 25th. Learn more at opce.uah.edu backslash business of space.

[01:15:10] I hope that you have found this podcast useful for your journey as you reach for the stars. This podcast is heard along the Marketing Podcast Network.

[01:15:38] For more great marketing podcasts, visit marketingpodcasts.net.